Bring back 5cp to hl
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@GeneralNick lower div teams are built a lot more differently than what you think. From my experience with ringing with the lower half of comp thoughts of them having the mindset of parking the bus/holding the fort is not something that exists. I know it’s silly for me to say that since the new gen haven’t really touched 5cp but with payload and steel it’s just not there if anything I’ve seen more players telling their teammates to “get the fuck in.”/“bro stop being fucking wimps and wipe these mfs.” When It came down to it the few that did try it just crumbled and then proceeded to say “y’all were just too passive.”
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@vorboyvo I did look more deep into it and you are right that it just creates a different issue. I will admit I came in with one issue that some fellas had which was the long ass games and I assumed that maybe that could potentially fix that issue to some extent.
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I wonder in particular how 5cp would play with wrangler banned
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I think the problems you and Exa listed aren’t necessarily problems with the map/game mode, but issues with the class. Half of what you said for engie gameplay on those maps were just sitting on sniper and wrangling, which is what engineer does on every other map anyways. But just because that’s what the “”meta”” is, doesn’t mean there’s more room for variability. On product you have little room for variability. That’s not the case when it comes to 5cp maps, and what I mean by a “breath of fresh air” is that there’s room for trying out more wacky strategies that will actually breed success rather than being forced to play the meta either because of social pressure or because there’s literally no other way to play the map (product concrete wrangler).
The point is that the issues with the class are highlighted much more in 5cp where teams are incentivized to park the bus. For example, if we take Gullywash in a stalemate situation, what variability is there for an engineer to do besides besides sitting in big door for 5-10 minutes and just chip shotting or wrangling at the flank with a level 3 gun while waiting for either team to make a move? The way the flanks are located makes it practically impossible for an engineer to get behind. There is no incentive for either team to push unlike KOTH or Stopwatch when there is a clock to beat.
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@vorboyvo said in Bring back 5cp to hl:
I wonder in particular how 5cp would play with wrangler banned
Now that would be funny but I’m not trying to get egg mains coming to my house and trying to fight me
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There is no incentive for either team to push unlike KOTH or Stopwatch when there is a clock to beat.
Well sure that shit ain’t highlighted like koth where you have the amount of time you have left to cap or on payload where you gotta beat the map in x amount of time. But let’s say your team got 4 caps on me and I got 3 and I have let’s say 5 mins to cap 2 or 1 to tie. Like u can bunker and play like reddit bums. But mate I’m not trying to lose and play safe I’m going to have to go in and force something what kind of dumbass is going to just sit there and take the L?
Even if we are tied we both know someone’s gotta make the move and for gully’s sake a lot of times people that get forced to hold second end up failing anyway cause they didn’t force the push to get mid back and usually if they win the retake of mid most of the time teams get 2nd for free.But this is just my experience playing on gully take it with a grain of salt
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Half you bums are talking without having really experienced how those maps played out in the past. I can tell since the same 3 maps keep popping up and that was only a part of the 5 cp pool, which used to be a staple in an era where it was fuckin’ HARDER to push. Heavy, demo, engineer have been nerfed since then. It is objectively EASIER to push now than when I played back in 2011 yet all I see are excuses. Sniper as a ward isn’t even a strat for second anymore so it’s easier to get picks to move and I doubt anyone playing 2022 even knows what that means.
Anyways #canalzone2022
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5cp < new koth, pl and steel-like a/d maps
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Y’all seem to really want to mix up the map pool. If you’ve played in advanced or above you can help expand the map pool by playing in the RGL HL: Map Development pugs.
Currently, aside from the new ramjam (pretty different than its previous iterations), all of the maps we are testing have not been played in a season of HL nor have they been tested in an RGL map cup.
DM me on discord for an invite TheS4rr#8985.
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@Grynn said in Bring back 5cp to hl:
@Mothership
I think the problems you and Exa listed aren’t necessarily problems with the map/game mode, but issues with the class. Half of what you said for engie gameplay on those maps were just sitting on sniper and wrangling, which is what engineer does on every other map anyways. But just because that’s what the “”meta”” is, doesn’t mean there’s more room for variability. On product you have little room for variability. That’s not the case when it comes to 5cp maps, and what I mean by a “breath of fresh air” is that there’s room for trying out more wacky strategies that will actually breed success rather than being forced to play the meta either because of social pressure or because there’s literally no other way to play the map (product concrete wrangler).
I don’t agree with this. What I listed out on all those maps were not the meta strategies, but the only strategies you could really do. Yeah, you could try funny level 3 strats, but its just the same as minis but with less metal. Yeah you could do Tele strats, but hiding the same teleporter on gullywash 2nd only works so many times, and that is ignoring the fact that doing so prevents your team from having teles at all (assuming they would even be able to use them in the first place).
You are extremely limited in what you can do as an engineer on any 5cp map since you are too slow and squishy, you are 100% reliant on the rest of your team to do anything. Any attempt to get behind will get you caught out and killed most of the time, and even if you get lucky and get a trade, it is not worth it 90% of the time since the respawn timers are not significantly different for either team. And because you are slow, even if you have faster spawns, you will still most likely get back to the front lines after the person you traded with.
Meanwhile I can name a bunch of things you could do differently on product. When I played, I mostly played around the combo and not the flank. Wrangling from pocket and denying that whole space so our demo can watch forward without getting rushed. You could also be a dumbass and just walk forward with the panic attack like J-man. At least on koth, any trades you make while you don’t have the point is a good trade.
Yeah, those issues are inherent because of engineer and not the gamemode, but 5cp locks you into those roles in a way that neither koth nor payload will.
My only successful attempt to try something “Wacky & Fun” was running perma level 2s and fj, annoying yipyapper who said it was a terrible idea.
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@TheS4rr shut up bro u a goofy
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whether or not we bring back 5cp, borneo, try out rapids / eruption / proot in upcoming seasons aren’t really the questions we should be asking
all of this gets answered if RGL as a league is able to take a definitive stance on the following question:
Is map variety more important than playing the objectively best maps?
Obviously, the answer to that question differs from person to person; I think it is, but RGL HL’s maplist seems to lean towards that answer being no. I don’t mean to throw the responsibility on the admins either - it’s up for the players to decide (probably via poll) what we as a community want for the game mode.
Recent map discussions around bringing back 5cp, borneo, and rotating out upward/product are all coming from the belief that map variety adds value to the league even at the cost of map quality. I don’t think anyone’s seriously arguing that borneo is a better pl map than upward - they’re arguing that it’s not enough of a downgrade to be permanently shelved in favor of upward being a permanent fixture in the rotation. From my perspective, a similar question is this: would you rather eat the same 8/10 meal every day, or occasionally mix it up with a different meal that’s only a 7/10? Obviously I’m biased towards swapping out upward for borneo for a season that that prior sentence is biased, but it gets across the crux of my argument.
For whatever it’s worth, I think bringing back gully or vanguard (no other 5cp though) is a good thing. Similar to borneo vs. upward, even though 5cp has its inherent flaws, the arguments people are making actually come into play so rarely that the benefit of introducing players to a new gamemode and new way to think about the game outweigh the small handful of matches that might have a team park outside last for a few minutes at the end of a match with a 3-1 lead.
but that’s just my opinion - being able to elaborate out my thoughts shouldn’t really make it more weighty than someone else’s (as much as I wished it would). unless we as a community (and therefore RGL) can take a stance of what principle should guide the map rotation, we’re going to be stuck having these conversations ad infinitum.
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I may have been a mere steel player when 5cp was last played, but I strongly remember Gullywash be omega fun even if last was aids.
Though I wouldn’t take my nostalgic view as much, just throwing it out there that some variety can bring some new viewership and excitement to a stale season.
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So hey like can I have 5cp now?
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do it nerds