Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media
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The league should do everything it has to in order to ensure players are free from harassment or feeling unwelcome because of who they are. As a private organization the league has no obligation to honour or tolerate unacceptable speech that leads to the former two. I think the standard the league uses in scrims should apply everywhere- if someone reports and the behaviour is objectionable, then and only then take action. If nobody is offended, then the behaviour has no reason not to be tolerated. But the fact of the matter is players spend most of their time in spaces adjacent to the league but not directly part of it that they are part of because they are players in the league, and these serve as excellent modes for people to be harassed.
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@darzie said in Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media:
You did not read my full post. If people are that invested in having you on their team that will probably work. However half the time people will tell they don’t actually care about having you in their team/pug group/whatever niche tf2 thing and continue doing whatever it is.
Sometimes asking will work. Sometimes it will not. Pretending asking will always work is a falsehood and doesn’t reflect the reality of what’s going on.
If you’re the best player available for a team, they will stop. I know this for a fact. Most people would rather win than say slurs.
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@wish said in Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media:
@darzie said in Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media:
You did not read my full post. If people are that invested in having you on their team that will probably work. However half the time people will tell they don’t actually care about having you in their team/pug group/whatever niche tf2 thing and continue doing whatever it is.
Sometimes asking will work. Sometimes it will not. Pretending asking will always work is a falsehood and doesn’t reflect the reality of what’s going on.
If you’re the best player available for a team, they will stop. I know this for a fact. Most people would rather win than say slurs.
Are you telling people who are tired of slurs to git gud so they have enough pull on teams?
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The issue is freedom of speech - Also this post is crap … people are too soft
Saying something racist or anti whatever is a right people have
At the same time RGL has the right to monitor and censor anything on their own platform
The issue is that censorship is not good and people should be allowed to make mistakes even big ones that some people might not agree with
The admins have the authority and rules are put into place to define what mistakes are unfixable.
If I choose to be anti whatever outside of the league its my right and I see no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed to hold a controversial belief.
Regardless if its right or wrong
Penalizing someone permanently isn’t going to solve this problem
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@wish The problem here is a culture problem. There are simply not enough options of teams such that everyone who wants reasonable teammates who don’t spew racist or queer phobic bs will be the best possible options for all of those teams. this leads to people being unwelcome in the scene as a whole, especially at higher levels, since there are too many teams that refuse to not say racist things.
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@Townze Freedom of speech is a freedom accorded to people so that a government, which necessarily has a monopoly on power, cannot suppress dissent, because someone who speaks against the government may be imprisoned or killed. Where there are private organizations, there is no such necessity. A person uncomfortable with the prospect of being denied racist speech is free to create their own racist tf2 league - nobody will stop them or imprison or kill them. Nobody has an inherent right to access the services provided by RGL- the league should be free to deny service to those who misuse it.
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@darzie said in Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media:
Are you telling people who are tired of slurs to git gud so they have enough pull on teams?
Yes. You can be an extremely, openly toxic person and still find a team provided that you’re good enough. The inverse works too.
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@vibeisveryo said in Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media:
@wish The problem here is a culture problem. There are simply not enough options of teams such that everyone who wants reasonable teammates who don’t spew racist or queer phobic bs will be the best possible options for all of those teams. this leads to people being unwelcome in the scene as a whole, especially at higher levels, since there are too many teams that refuse to not say racist things.
Higher level tf2 is unwelcoming, I agree. But I don’t think it has anything to do with bigoted speech…
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@wish said in Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media:
@darzie said in Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media:
Are you telling people who are tired of slurs to git gud so they have enough pull on teams?
Yes. You can be an extremely, openly toxic person and still find a team provided that you’re good enough. The inverse works too.
I feel like we can agree this is a bug and not a feature. Good players should not be able to be toxic just because they’re good, and bad players should not need to be good to be treated with respect.
Telling people they need to be good enough to force teams to accept them for not using slurs is just saying slurs are acceptable to use at low skill players.
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@wish “Higher level tf2 is unwelcoming, I agree. But I don’t think it has anything to do with bigoted speech. As far as I know, top invite players don’t tolerate that type of speech.”
The people that think they are good do it
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im pretty sure that if rgl banned slurs of any kind the comp scene would be 1 div of rgl pug runners playing prolander
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@Cutimus I’m gonna tell you this I know a bunch of high level invite players who do say (the word) but at the same time most of them don’t care and in fact, just have fun playing the game without caring.
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@vibeisveryo said in Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media:
@wish The problem here is a culture problem. There are simply not enough options of teams such that everyone who wants reasonable teammates who don’t spew racist or queer phobic bs will be the best possible options for all of those teams. this leads to people being unwelcome in the scene as a whole, especially at higher levels, since there are too many teams that refuse to not say racist things.
I think there are more of these options than you’d expect, at every level of play. For instance, Froyotech, the most decorated team in TF2’s history, is kept as a low-toxicity zone, even though some of their players have a history of behaving otherwise.
And if you truly can’t find a team that suits your preferences, then it costs nothing to make your own, with whatever house rules you need. Then, you don’t need to worry about what happens outside your own team, since the league already has conduct standards for scrims and matches, which are the only times you’d need to interact with the unwashed masses.
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black toad. idc what words are used or thrown around, doesn’t affect me. I’m here to play TF2.
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@Ampy I don’t think there are enough tf2 comp players for the league to afford to hand out SIGNIFICANTLY more bans, I think about 1/3 of the current comp player base has said a slur at some point in time, whether used to offend someone or just used colloquially. If all of these players got banned, the competitive scene would be dead. There are simply not enough players to justify banning everyone who has said a slur in general.