Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media

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  • @Kastaling First of all, free speech is strictly an American thing, and does not apply to private organizations (like RGL). They’re allowed to restrict whoever they want from their platform. Also, these changes wouldn’t prevent people from saying the N word as much as they want in private discords, they just wouldn’t be able to play in RGL.

  • Listen, with all due respect, people are here to play the game. Why should it matter to you if someone in a PRIVATE DISCORD says something offensive to you? Does it affect your matches and scrims? If not then why should RGL police it? Doing so would be an extreme overstep and in my opinion would serve to push some of the best players out of the scene. If what someone is saying bothers you, it is easy to simply block them and leave the server. Also your point about RGL bans not infringing upon free speech is only in a legal sense. If RGL banned people for what they say in a private discord it would absolutely be a violation of free speech.

  • @Xenagos The post specified private discords. Plus the concept of free speech is a global thing, not an American thing. Yes it has been implemented in American law, but the concept extends to all entities including RGL. Just because RGL isn’t legally obligated to uphold free speech doesn’t mean they aren’t morally obligated to.

  • @Xenagos Do you not see a problem with restricting what people say in completely private discords? People are not RGL players first. They are people first. And people have a right to be able to say whatever gamer words they want in their own private discord. Policing them in their own, once again, PRIVATE discords is just asinine and stupid.

    Free speech takes form across many countries, with it being most protected in the USA. RGL is a primarily USA based organization, no? And even if it wasn’t, it still is restricting that free speech. Hate speech is free speech. In fact, “hate speech” doesn’t even exist as it is just free speech.

  • @Papaya Free speech isn’t a thing in Canada. It explicitly does not extend to entities like RGL. If you want to talk morals though, is it moral to let players who drop slurs play in RGL?

  • @Xenagos Yes.

  • @Kastaling Again, this wouldn’t restrict what players can say in a private discord. It doesn’t matter if RGL is a primarily US based organization, they aren’t the US government.

  • @Xenagos You seem to have misunderstood my point. Free speech isn’t some law that applies to a company or doesn’t, its a universal concept and value that RGL can either choose to uphold or not. It doesn’t matter whether the country they are based in has implemented it, it is still a concept that exists. The morality of players being allowed to say slurs can be argued. I think it is a fine idea to prevent them from saying slurs in matches because that would reflect poorly on RGL. It is an entirely different thing however to police individuals in private discord servers entirely separate from RGL. I personally believe it is not up to RGL admins to decide what can and cannot be said in private servers.

  • @Xenagos …yes it does. You are restricting what they can say. You are threatening them with being banned for simply saying a word. In their own private discords. RGL doesn’t have the authority to disallow people simply for saying a word. This is violating free speech not in a legal sense (at least with current interpretations by the supreme court), but in a more moral sense.

  • @Xenagos Again, the post explicitly refers to RGL policing PRIVATE DISCORDS. That’s what we are debating here.

  • @Papaya There’s already rules in place for RGL regarding what you can and cannot say in private servers.

    @Kastaling You aren’t restricting them from being able to say whatever they want, they are more than welcome to do so. That’s not a violation of free speech. Free speech doesn’t mean you’re free from the consequences of said speech.

  • the issue at hand here has literally nothing to do with free speech. imo there’s just no reason to moderate/make decisions based on private discussions because
    a) logistically, there’s going to be a lot of shit to sift through
    b) there’s going to be a lot of shit to sift through because this is ultimately a culture problem within the TF2 community, partly propelled by a relatively small amount of problem users

  • @Xenagos In the view of RGL’s rules, league scrims are not a private environment. Threatening someone with a ban is restricting them. You’re being very disingenuous about this.

  • @Xenagos Regarding your first point about there already being rules in place policing private servers, would you mind providing a link? I was unable to find anything.

    In regards to your point about freedom from consequences, free speech protects you from consequences from the overbearing entity but NOT your peers. In this example it would mean a fellow teammate telling someone off for using slurs would not be violating free speech, but RGL banning people for what they say WOULD be a violation because in this case RGL is the overbearing entity.

  • @Xenagos free speech is by definition the ability to say what you want and not face consequences, the only exception being something to incite violence or a crowd (i.e. screaming “fire!” in a crowded room) if you say some fucked shit and someone on the street beats the fuck outta you, thats your fault, but its the ability to not be punished by an institution

  • @Xenagos What do you mean “Free speech doesn’t mean you’re free from the consequences of said speech”? Do you still have free speech if you are disallowed from every single store in your town because you said something they didn’t like? Do you still have free speech if you are banned from every single online platform for saying something they didn’t like? Do you still have free speech if you are blocked from saying what you want? The concept of “Free speech doesn’t mean you’re free from the consequences of said speech.” is really stupid and is completely ignoring the principles of free speech.

  • RGL deals with cases that occur in RGL sanctioned discords, servers, and scrims/matches, because it is their right to do so since its their service, RGL does not however own discord as a whole nor anyones private steam messages etc, its not their place to be regulating private areas

  • another issue is what actually constitutes a “public environment”. are team chat channels private? sure. are the forums private? obviously not. are PUG discords private? that’s more arguable. i would say no, because generally anyone can join a pug group, but people are treating n-word slinging in a pug group chat as if its like “just some jokes with a couple boys” when there’s like 80+ people in most pug groups

  • if someone made their own publicly accessible forum that isn’t affiliated with RGL in any way, a large amount of RGL users used it to discuss the league/gameplay, and they did rule-breaking shit on there, does that qualify as ‘private’ because its not RGL branded?

  • @cyclowns Again though I would argue that it IS a private forum in regards to being policed by RGL because said server isn’t associated with RGL at all. RGL does not have a monopoly on competitive TF2, and if a private pug server chooses to allow slurs, then it is their choice. RGL shouldn’t be allowed to ban players for using slurs in pugs because the pugs have nothing to do with RGL as an organization (even if they happen to contain players who play in RGL)

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