Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media

#876
Topic created · 460 Posts · 1028 Views
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  • @toast

    No, and that’s why the argument that “African American’s can say it, but we can’t” is inherently ineffectual in an online context.

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  • Reporting people for stuff said in a private discord is so stupid and is just gonna stop people from wanting to play RGL. What is even more ridiculous is asking for permanent bans for slurs. “Hate speech” is free speech and making any other distinction is a very dangerous path towards just banning wrongthink.

    I think that private discords are exactly that, private. What happens in them stays in them. Who really gives a shit if a couple of basement dwellers decide to say a couple gamer words in a private discord? How would you even find out unless you are actively searching for those gamer words? I mean come on, people have a freedom to say what they want in explicitly private groups.

    I even hold the personal belief that you should be able to say the n-word and such in-game, since in the end its just a word, granted you aren’t using it as a slur and just a replacement for the word “dude” or anything casual like that. But do I really care? Not really. In the end its just a word, any power it holds over you is only because you let it hold that power of you.

    The current rules are absolutely fine. The vast majority of people do not care about some people in private discords saying some funny words or whatever, and this is just stepping wayyyy over those boundaries of encroaching on free speech.

    To the original poster of this and whoever agrees with him (and I do not mean this as an insult or anything of the sort): grow thicker skin. Stop letting things that barely affect you hold power over you, and you will both have a better time in RGL and in real life.

    Have a good day everyone.

  • @Kastaling This has nothing to do with free speech lmao

  • @Xenagos How so? You are restricting the speech of those in PRIVATE discords. What people say in their FREE TIME, completely separate from RGL. I understand the whole “private organization” argument, but I don’t really follow that ideology and just think it is an excuse to be able to restrict speech.

  • @Kastaling First of all, free speech is strictly an American thing, and does not apply to private organizations (like RGL). They’re allowed to restrict whoever they want from their platform. Also, these changes wouldn’t prevent people from saying the N word as much as they want in private discords, they just wouldn’t be able to play in RGL.

  • Listen, with all due respect, people are here to play the game. Why should it matter to you if someone in a PRIVATE DISCORD says something offensive to you? Does it affect your matches and scrims? If not then why should RGL police it? Doing so would be an extreme overstep and in my opinion would serve to push some of the best players out of the scene. If what someone is saying bothers you, it is easy to simply block them and leave the server. Also your point about RGL bans not infringing upon free speech is only in a legal sense. If RGL banned people for what they say in a private discord it would absolutely be a violation of free speech.

  • @Xenagos The post specified private discords. Plus the concept of free speech is a global thing, not an American thing. Yes it has been implemented in American law, but the concept extends to all entities including RGL. Just because RGL isn’t legally obligated to uphold free speech doesn’t mean they aren’t morally obligated to.

  • @Xenagos Do you not see a problem with restricting what people say in completely private discords? People are not RGL players first. They are people first. And people have a right to be able to say whatever gamer words they want in their own private discord. Policing them in their own, once again, PRIVATE discords is just asinine and stupid.

    Free speech takes form across many countries, with it being most protected in the USA. RGL is a primarily USA based organization, no? And even if it wasn’t, it still is restricting that free speech. Hate speech is free speech. In fact, “hate speech” doesn’t even exist as it is just free speech.

  • @Papaya Free speech isn’t a thing in Canada. It explicitly does not extend to entities like RGL. If you want to talk morals though, is it moral to let players who drop slurs play in RGL?

  • @Xenagos Yes.

  • @Kastaling Again, this wouldn’t restrict what players can say in a private discord. It doesn’t matter if RGL is a primarily US based organization, they aren’t the US government.

  • @Xenagos You seem to have misunderstood my point. Free speech isn’t some law that applies to a company or doesn’t, its a universal concept and value that RGL can either choose to uphold or not. It doesn’t matter whether the country they are based in has implemented it, it is still a concept that exists. The morality of players being allowed to say slurs can be argued. I think it is a fine idea to prevent them from saying slurs in matches because that would reflect poorly on RGL. It is an entirely different thing however to police individuals in private discord servers entirely separate from RGL. I personally believe it is not up to RGL admins to decide what can and cannot be said in private servers.

  • @Xenagos …yes it does. You are restricting what they can say. You are threatening them with being banned for simply saying a word. In their own private discords. RGL doesn’t have the authority to disallow people simply for saying a word. This is violating free speech not in a legal sense (at least with current interpretations by the supreme court), but in a more moral sense.

  • @Xenagos Again, the post explicitly refers to RGL policing PRIVATE DISCORDS. That’s what we are debating here.

  • @Papaya There’s already rules in place for RGL regarding what you can and cannot say in private servers.

    @Kastaling You aren’t restricting them from being able to say whatever they want, they are more than welcome to do so. That’s not a violation of free speech. Free speech doesn’t mean you’re free from the consequences of said speech.

  • the issue at hand here has literally nothing to do with free speech. imo there’s just no reason to moderate/make decisions based on private discussions because
    a) logistically, there’s going to be a lot of shit to sift through
    b) there’s going to be a lot of shit to sift through because this is ultimately a culture problem within the TF2 community, partly propelled by a relatively small amount of problem users

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