welcome everyone. i am not amazingly good at this game but i have some knowlage about it. i played it a lot (5000 hours). i love watching 6vs6 game or highlander. i like new experimental formats too. new maps in map pool always make me hyped about any game. i always wanted to design innovative map for tf2, something fresh & cool but i did not have skills. now i have learned a bit about hammer engine for tf2 map making and i started developing map. i have chosen koth gamemode becouse i like it a lot and i feel like i can bring something fresh to this gamemode. this is where koth_junkyard comes in. this map was in my head (layout/geometry) for quite a long time. now i did it. i created initial test version of map. it fully works in case of map mechanics (spawns, doors, point, pickups etc.). map futures a lot of hight variation and very fast point cap time. additionally team that does not have a point spawns a LOT faster than team that possess it. this might make it so teams will cap point a lot. hopefully it will be fun and enjoyable. also there are many pickups on map but they are placed in balanced way i hope (the better the pickup the more positional advantage you sacrafice). so feel free to check out map and give me your opinion. dont be afraid to trash talk the map. maybe it is horrible. who knows … in the end it is a junkyard
edit: I just re-read the OP, and I missed the point with what you were going for in terms of the fast cap time, fast respawns and large amount of packs. That being said, everything just seems too much. I might’ve been a little too conservative with some of my suggestions, but the instant cap on low ground/9 packs per side/4 second respawns aren’t going to lead to healthy gameplay, imo. It’d be worth testing some timings different than traditional maps, for sure, but even as someone who likes to buck the system I think it’s a little too extreme.
Just took a look at it, it’s pretty rough but I’d be interested in seeing how some of it plays with some touchups.
For the love of god, raise the spawn floor. I get the map is small and you can artificially increase spawn timers by increasing the time taken to walk out of spawn, but why am I taking fall damage to leave spawn?
If I leave the main spawn door, there should be a way to quickly make it onto batts without having to do a prop jump on the barrel on the right. The raised pathway on the left side of the spawn, and the need to go down, jump up, and then take a spiral up to the batts on left side is also somewhat tedious.
2a. The jump into vent should probably be a little easier. I might just be ass, but it feels needlessly difficult.
On the topic of the vent, it can’t stay as it is. A direct dropdown into the center of point with no way to see anyone inside of it other than by camping the bottom of it leads to poor gameplay. If you really want to keep it, I’d recommend getting rid of the 90 degree turn at the end and maybe putting some kind of transparent shutter on it? Feels really wonky, all things considered.
The point caps ludicrously fast. Three seconds at x1? It’s basically unplayable. Combine that with the lower cap zone (which can’t even be shot at??) and you’re basically asking for control to flip every 10 seconds. Increase the cap time to like 10 seconds minimum, increase the size of the point, and remove the lower capture zones.
I can’t speak to 6s, but something needs to be done about this sightline if you want the map to even get tested in HL. You can’t rush a sniper, you realistically can’t bomb him, and there’s such massive runups for spy that they can’t get on him either. I don’t know what you could do without drastically changing the entire map, but it’s a problem.
There’s way, way, way, way, way, waaaaaaay too much health. Each side has 3 smalls (on mid too, so there are 6 small packs on mid?), 3 mediums, and 3 fulls?? Product has 4 mediums and 1 small on both sides, and you’ve got almost 4x that. The only full kit on a koth is on lakeside, and that’s in contested ground. My suggestion? Get rid of the smalls on mid other than the one by the crate, turn the medium in the left shutter into a small, turn the full kit on right side into a medium, delete the other fulls, and delete the medium on left batts. That leaves you with 2 mediums and 2 small for each side, which feels far more reasonable.
Get rid of the window above vent. It’s cute, but it gives defense a laughable amount of power.
The raised ground that the ramps on the point lead to strike me as potential pain points with how difficult they might be to clear out, considering that other than batts every single approach to point puts you on low ground. Difficult to say anything without playing it, though.
General mapping advice, watch your walls. Places where you can get caught on when strafing along a wall add nothing but frustration to a player’s experience. There’s not too many of them, but places like here and both sides of the shutter here stand out a little.
It might seem like I’m just shittalking it, but I think the smallness of the map and the wideness of the point could, at best case, play like a better of version of product. Interested to see where you take it.
thanks for your feedback Alto
-first of all about spawns my friend. when no team owns a point both teams spawn after 10 sec. when point is captured team owning point spawns after about 16 sec and team that does not have it spawns after around 6 sec.
-respawn will be reworked a bit in second version. the idea behind taking damage in spawn was to allow dead ringer spy to activate his watch than fastly touch health cabinet and run fast mid but i understand it might be too annoying for other classes to deal with it
-jump to batts are made quite hard intesionally but maybe i will make them ramps. btw in my opinion vent jump is quite easy just need to learn it. batts jump can be made after a bit of practice too regularly.
-i dont know if i agree with your opinion about vent but i suppose if many people will say it is bad i will rework it or even delete
-point cap will be made longer in next version
-there will be added some fences to the point to break this sightline slightly
-when it comes to health and ammo i can agree there is a lot of it but it is placed so it is not overpowered immo. anyway i will put some time to think about some pickups adjustments in future
-i might make window 1 way to see through tbh in a2 version so only people from spawn can check mid (good feedback from you on this )
-i might rework some highground in future. we will see
-clipping will be added in future to all stuck spots for sure. dont worry about that for now
btw sorry for my english and thank you again for putting your time to check my map. peace
In version A2 main changes are:
-reworked spawn to flow better
-slower point cap speed
-window above vent now can be only see through when someone is standing next to it from spawn side (not mid side). it is changed to be like this so people spawning can fast check where people on mid are but people on mid cannot look through the window where spawning people are going
-added some cover on capture point
-added rock to valley to give it some more highground options
-introduced water pool in valley to give soldier ability to mega bomb middle from there
ps my english is bad