Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media

#876
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  • @Xenagos Then why are you sitting here arguing for it? Thats what this forum is about, private discords.

  • @cyclowns said in Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media:

    people keep saying “police” like RGL is going to lock you up for saying the n word. why is RGL not allowed to make decisions based on things that happen off platform?

    It’s a matter of the league’s jurisdiction. This competitive TF2 league is, frankly, not important enough to justify owning every player’s entire online life. The league has conduct standards for the platforms that it owns, and nobody here has problems with that.

    If people, who happen to also play in RGL, want to create their own independent communities, they should be free to create their own conduct standards. These standards can be more or less strict than the league’s own, and should be up to the players themselves.

    what makes RGL different from the person that owns the discord server banning someone?

    The two have very different consequences, from the perspective of someone being banned. The league also, unlike on its own platforms, lacks sufficient context to determine what actually happened in those private servers most of the time.

    with @HA-Johnny’s suggestion of just only going off of information in reports, none of this is really that big of an issue

    This doesn’t solve the problem of reports being sent in bad faith (and even fraudulently, as I posted a demonstration of above). UGC was notorious for teams hunting for forfeit wins on technicalities instead of actually playing the game. I really don’t want the new meta for that to be e-stalking your opponent’s players to find evidence of them committing thoughtcrimes.

  • @Papaya I’m literally just saying it’s not a free speech issue.

  • I feel like when a league has too much jurisdiction over it’s players, a lot will see it as overbearing and probably leave, I’m not on salary for RGL and afaik RGL isn’t really for profit, so they really have nothing to gain by banning a massive chunk of players. This isn’t like OWL banning XQC (Overwatch) or FaZe dropping Dubs when he said the n-word on stream (Fortnite) because in both cases they were playing competitive in massive games with huge player bases with huge sponsors. Idk maybe Mannco.store really hates when open players drop n-bombs but I doubt it.

    tl;dr it’s not that deep and it’s not worth banning so many people…

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  • I think this is a stupid argument. Policing private discords is unbelievably stupid. Anyone can fake discord screenshots/evidence to frame even the most valued members of the community in a bad light. On the topic of the “one and done”, I think this promotes witch-hunting to people that you might not like. "This person said the n-word! inserts fake discord texts or even if the “hate speech” is directed toward someone different. Or it could just be a joke among friends? Who is to say?

  • @Ampy RGL overreaching with their rules into private discords would give RGL a bad image. Hate speech is too subjective of a term to ban over. “One and done” backfires because you end up losing potential players that could change their ways in time. Your solutions and pro censorship tone with your message only creates more problems.

  • private discord servers shouldnt be affiliated with rgl lmfao they are entirely different, and all these rules should stay on rgl turf (rgl official discord, matches) ppl unironically getting pissed about slurs in private servers should just cry honestly and grow some balls you losers

  • This is the worst thread I have ever read both in terms of this basically being an effort to stop badthink and in terms of this being enough of an issue in the tf2 community to warrant a real discussion

  • I don’t understand why we would need this level of policing. I respect your opinion on stricter punishments but otherwise I think you’re wrong. I don’t think it’s right to punish someone indefinitely for something they said, even if it’s disgusting. By banning someone permanently for saying something, you’re implying with full confidence that they can never redeem themselves, that they cannot realize their mistake and better themselves ever and must be exiled. I think this line of thinking is narrow and wrong. I don’t condone people saying ugly things, but to think that none of them can ever change and must be banned forever is just silly.

    Secondly, and if I get banned for saying this, I’m never posting here again; I think people to some degree just need thicker skin. This doesn’t negate the fact that the people who say racist and hurtful things are wrong and should be punished, but at the minimum, you should have thick enough skin to not care, or at least not be ruined over it. That’s just my opinion.

  • Even with trash talking and people being racially charged… On the platform, it’s somewhat understandable to police that kind of stuff; outside, maybe not as much… But I’ve seen far worse damage from none of that. Funny enough, when people are like “just block jerks” n’ such, it doesn’t solve the issue for someone who is actually getting bullied. As I’ve said, and due to another community I’ve come from, I’ve seen FAR worse come from people causing social discourse upon one person; blocking doesn’t solve an issue, neither does policing heavily nor attempting to use others as proxies to find if X person does or says who-knows-what. You’re gonna have someone attack X person still through others due to “they did so-and-so”, heavily monitoring things will get a backlash all in due time, and people come up with fake shit and you never know who’s done what.

    I’m babbling but still… If you want to get rid of an issue, you actually got to get to the source and not the product.

  • it’s a private discord, what is said in it should stay in it. I don’t think I should be banned from playing in the league because I said the gamer word while joking with my friends. yall are silencing speech under the guise of “preventing harrasment,” but you’re completely ignoring the consequences of what you’re about to do. the best thing to do in this situation is to man up.

  • i feel like the people that are suggesting that other people in the comp tf2 community who use slurs are just trying to be “edgy” vastly underestimate how many people legitimately hold transphobic and racist beliefs. looking back at when i was an “edgy” 16/17 year old i cringe because i’m mature enough to understand how shitty i looked and probably made people feel as a result of the stupid shit i said. I think this is a good idea for the league and for the players.

  • Proposal:
    Permaban players who say slurs or who otherwise try to rulebook about what bigoted behaviors are acceptable or not.

    Clearly this community is incapable of growing as people or self-policing their behavior.
    Its depressing

  • why is this thread so long

  • good civilized talk everyone, good to see no one is monkeying around

  • @nabla just block someone if they say a slur, its not hard. you dont have to see what people type

  • @nabla If someone says something offensive to you all you have to do is block them. You are not obligated to interact with them outside of scrims and matches, and if they say a slur during scrims or matches RGL already bans them.

  • imagine if your employer told you “hey, you need to stop being racist on twitter” and you argued for your free speech rights and told them to grow thicker skin

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