As someone who’s new to the competitive scene in TF2 it’s sad to say that this isn’t the first time I’ve heard of stuff like this happening in the competitive scene. In the pub setting it’s perpetuated that there are a lot of toxic people in competitive and harassment is normal. But after this read, and seeing the community for myself, they’re right. RGL is the only exception at the moment, which leads to a bunch of threads being mad that RGL doesn’t tolerate player misconduct like how other leagues turn a blind eye or give a slap on the wrist. Which makes me really appreciate RGL and that I started with it, I’ve only had to deal with a low amount of toxicity and the majority of experiences have been positive. The issue right now is that RGL isn’t totally independent from the rest of the community (yet), where most discussions are still mostly done on Tftv and pugging is out of RGL’s control as well (because of tf2center and other smaller pug communities)l. So players who get banned or in trouble for violating the rules can continue to play and spread the toxicity like a weed to the rest of the community through other means. The community is small, but it always seems like you can just go somewhere else if you can’t play somewhere at the moment. For example (in the current ruleset) if you’re a European that gets decent ping to the US you can play in RGL, ETF2L, and UGC (on top of pugging/community input on tftv/etc) so if you get banned/suspended from one, you can just play in another. As for the root of the issue, the tf2 scene did a really bad job of cracking down on harassment/toxicity for years of the scene to my understanding, and those years led to it being normalized to the point where people see anything that’s regulated as too far. I’m really hoping that RGL can continue the path it’s on, because if it does there are going to be (and already are) new players that now have the new standards as the norm, rather than the norm being stuff like the twitter post above.
QueeQuey
@76561198117204064
Best posts made by 76561198117204064
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RE: Competitive TF2, Harassment, and Volunteering
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RE: Aegis lft soldier s10
@Aegis This man was an inspiration back in the day. Helped mold me into the player I am today.
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RE: Mainstreaming RGL
I agree with working with other content creators, and I’ve tried/have. It’s just that either projects fall through or the individual players don’t want to work with us yet, mostly citing lack of competitive knowledge to me (or reservations about our current modes). I actually have a google doc of a list of YouTubers that I wanted to work with and reached out to, but all of them said no except for After Breakfast which did voiceover for a promotional NR6s video that never came out, and Octo for a bot tournament that didn’t happen after the main contact left the video team. I do think outreach is something we need to do, but we can’t expect the YouTubers to meet us on our terms, we have to try to give them what they want from us. Like I don’t think someone like Big Joey is going to have a great time if we stick him into a normal 6s or Highlander match, there has to be a content/fun reason to join up.
A cup that I wanted to run was a “Clan Wars” cup, where we’d get different YouTubers in a tournament and their subscribers would play 12v12 matches against each other to see who has the strongest subscriber base (honestly a lot of these guys have big enough discords that they could just have their mods fight each other). We can do variations on that like offering a specific division of just YouTuber teams that play against each other week to week. But from the talks I’ve had we’re going to need to start being progressive again if we want to grab the YouTuber audience.
Latest posts made by 76561198117204064
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RE: Mainstreaming RGL
I agree with working with other content creators, and I’ve tried/have. It’s just that either projects fall through or the individual players don’t want to work with us yet, mostly citing lack of competitive knowledge to me (or reservations about our current modes). I actually have a google doc of a list of YouTubers that I wanted to work with and reached out to, but all of them said no except for After Breakfast which did voiceover for a promotional NR6s video that never came out, and Octo for a bot tournament that didn’t happen after the main contact left the video team. I do think outreach is something we need to do, but we can’t expect the YouTubers to meet us on our terms, we have to try to give them what they want from us. Like I don’t think someone like Big Joey is going to have a great time if we stick him into a normal 6s or Highlander match, there has to be a content/fun reason to join up.
A cup that I wanted to run was a “Clan Wars” cup, where we’d get different YouTubers in a tournament and their subscribers would play 12v12 matches against each other to see who has the strongest subscriber base (honestly a lot of these guys have big enough discords that they could just have their mods fight each other). We can do variations on that like offering a specific division of just YouTuber teams that play against each other week to week. But from the talks I’ve had we’re going to need to start being progressive again if we want to grab the YouTuber audience.
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RE: Aegis lft soldier s10
@Aegis This man was an inspiration back in the day. Helped mold me into the player I am today.
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RE: cp_mannbase
Played a few scrims of the map, looks great but feels a bit too big at the moment, making visibility of bombers pretty low since they come from so far away (but as someone who IS one of those soldiers it’s fun). I’d have to play the map more to get a feeling if it actually needs changes in that regard.
Anyway, there are two (4 since it’s mirrored I guess) spots that I’d like to address on mid. The first is the Rock, and being able to stand on a lip in front of it. Being able to stand there is cool, but the visibility of the ledge is very small, and my team wouldn’t have known about the spot if I didn’t accidentally land there.
The second are the stairs on mid. There isn’t a fence or wall or anything visibly on the side of them, and it looks like you can fit in there as a player or stickies in there (but you can’t since there’s an invisible wall). Adding a wall or a fence etc should be better for visibility.
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RE: Weapon Bans: Which confuse you? What would you ban/unban if you could and why?
@ALL-FEAR-THE-FREAK I would disagree here.
The soda popper gives mobility yes, but you have to get there first. You can make the same argument with a ton of the “snowball” weapons that are allowed. Also, “if you hit your shots” can be said about any item. I don’t think that’s a strong argument to be honest.
Bonk: Yeah you can tank a trap, but then right after your bonk is over your movement speed is lowered (and in this case would be by a ton). If you need to “tank spam” you’re playing pretty dumb to be honest and deserve to lose. So I do agree that it’s not that great.
Guillotine: Spam is inevitable, also if you “Spam” your guillotine you’re going to spend more time without a secondary than with one, putting yourself at a downside. Guillotine is also a projectile? It’s not instant lol.
Pretty boy’s is not as strong as you think, the nerf to the health back has made it significantly worse. The “faster firing speed makes the dps higher” argument doesn’t work since you’re not constantly firing your entire ammo supply on your pistol unless you’re the engineer.
Mangler: The charge shot is garbage 99% of the time, if you use it, you have no primary weapon and HAVE to reload for a few seconds. If you’re running out of rockets as soldier you’re doing something wrong.
Base jumper: If you think people would run the air strike if this got unbanned you’re insane lol
Whip: Yeah sure, you have a heavy late to mid, the other team (if they’re not bad) should either have killed your demo+roamer already and have your side trapped off since you’re rolling out slower to do so. I’ve tested this (it wasn’t in a season environment to be fair) and the heavy to mid is not the strongest part of the weapon, and isn’t an issue here.
Steak: Yeah, I don’t want a heavy that can’t swap off of his melee and takes 35% more damage on my team. Maybe on the rollout for a surprise, but the sandvich/banana with the whip would be better.
Quick Fix: The uber build rate bug was fixed quite a while ago, it doesn’t build nearly as insanely as you think. If your med gets bombed and isn’t beaming a scout then I don’t know what they’re doing. Also you take fall damage still, so if you try to get out with a sliver of health you’re going to hilariously die.
Diamondback: It’s literally not an issue. L’Etranger is wayyyy better in the 6s environment. Why would I ever give up an increased chance of a kill on the med/demo for the possibility of maybe getting a 102 shot off on 1 player that’s probably buffed? It’s a good weapon in HL and casual, but not in 6s.
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RE: Weapon Bans: Which confuse you? What would you ban/unban if you could and why?
@Ryuk
For 6s I’d unban:Soda Popper
Sure it gives you the jumps, but you have to build up damage to get there, starting you out at a disadvantage every time you spawn. Scout’s scattergun already does a good amount of damage up-close and scout 1v1s can be pretty quick, with only 3 shots exchanged, which in that case the soda popper would lose due to the reload being necessary. Sure it’s annoying to fight as soldier or demo, but if you let the scout get to that point it’s kinda your fault. In the same way that you let a soldier build up banner, or a demo get kills with the eyelander etc.Bonk!
If you use this, you’re probably baiting your team. Using it to go behind the enemy puts your team at a potential 6v5 fight where they should lose. If you’re spotted while using bonk! You’re a pretty easy kill since you’re slow. Soldiers or scouts can just decimate you.
Speaking from experience in nr6sCrit-a-cola
The only time when it’s useful is during ubers. People forget that mini-crits don’t have damage falloff, so if you don’t have a buff and get piped from ANYWHERE you die instantly (If you take a rocket you’re left with 3 health, or die instantly if you’re in ramp-up range). The majority of the time you’re left with the downside of not having a pistol. It can totally be used to push a stalemate or uber add if your pocket scout died in the last fight, but that’s pretty much it, doesn’t exactly warrant a ban anymore.
Speaking from experience in nr6sFlying Guillotine
The times when it would be useful is during stalemates, which when that happens healthpacks are normally nearby. Not exactly a powerful weapon, just an annoying one like the Wrap Assassin. It doesn’t need to be banned in my opinion.Pretty Boy’s
This DESERVED the ban before, when it got the upside of health. But it’s been nerfed since then, since you don’t get 7hp per shot at any range anymore. The faster firing speed is good and bad since it can make you miss more, but it’s just a sidegrade to the pistol. Doesn’t need a ban.
Speaking from experience in nr6s.Cow Mangler
While the slower first reload was a significant downside before, I’d say that it still has one with the rising presence of engineers. Engineer isn’t a generalist yet by any means, but he’s definitely a rising force to be reckoned with. Sentry guns are a staple in the last hold defense of 6s now, and are making their way onto koth with maps like clearcut. With the buffs to the Jag (and engineer in general) the cow mangler has a notable downside, sure you CAN disable sentries, but it’s not nearly as good as just finding an angle and killing them (and in that situation you’re going to get pushed since you have to reload 4 times before being able to fire again, a great way to die after firing off 1 shot, putting your team at a player disadvantage).
Speaking from experience in nr6sB.A.S.E. Jumper
It got nerfed a while ago and kills your momentum while jumping, there isn’t much of a reason to keep it banned.Disciplinary Action
We’re not ETF2L, we don’t have to have mods that slow down the game. The primary argument to keep this banned is “OH wElL YoU cAn TaKe A hEaVy To MiD” ok yeah sure, but now what? Get bombed in choke because your team was too slow to actually make it to the mid fight? Or bait your demo and roamer (plus scout and medic possibly) because you’re still rolling out? You’re giving up positional advantage if you’re using the whip to get a heavy to mid, the actual argument here is that you can get your combo to mid faster, but you’re giving up crit heals on your pocket to do so. It sounds scary, but really shouldn’t be.
Speaking from experience in nr6sBuffalo Steak
See the argument for the Disciplinary Action. Also giving up the potential of the sandvich or banana would be really dumb, especially if the whip gets unbanned.
Speaking from experience in nr6sQuick Fix
You still can die to stickytraps, snipers, bombing soldiers, scouts etc when using the quick fix. Focus fire (Which is common in 6s) can out-damage the uber as well. It’s a good option, especially for mid, but that’s about it. If you want to take the potential advantage on mid, to potentially have a disadvantage when pushing second and so on, that’s a choice that I think is interesting and we shouldn’t remove from the game.
Speaking from experience in nr6sDiamondback
The main issue that I personally have with the diamondback is that you get crits for destroying Engineer buildings, since you can get a potential 5 crits for killing 1 player. That being said, in 6s you’re not going for the engineer. You’re going for the Demo or Medic. If you get that stab, you typically die instantly, so even if you do get 1 102 shot off, you’re not killing anyone else. You’d be better off using the L’Etranger to have the cloak bonuses to get that initial stab. It doesn’t deserve a 6s ban.
Speaking from experience in nr6sAgreements
Reserve Shooter
I don’t think I really need to explain myself here, but it’s a really strong defensive weapon, if it’s unbanned you should probably have your pocket run it to deny sacs from soldiers. It punishes using advanced movement which isn’t fun to play against. This is a shame since I love the reserve shooter in casual, so I thought of a potential tweak: if it’s possible having the reserve shooter only mini-crit when you or a teammate knocked someone in the air it would keep the original intention of the weapon intact without punishing Soldiers, Demos, and Pyros for choosing advanced movement.Mad Milk
If it gave 35% heals like the concheror instead of 60% I think it could be unbanned. It’s really strong for team fights, especially in gamemodes with points or payloads.
Speaking from experience in nr6sNatascha
Mechanically broken unfortunately. I do think the mod that speeds up the heavy instead of slowing targets is an interesting take, but would make it trash in 6s.Rescue Ranger / Short Circuit
This is more of a problem with map design than the weapons themselves, if maps had an extra room before the resup like on granary that way the engineer can’t spam bolts or short circuit balls when defending last they could be fine.
Speaking from experience in nr6sWrangler
I don’t think I really need to explain myself here, in casual and Highlander it’s not as great since the engineer has to fight spies (which barely exist in 6s), and a total of 8-11 damage sources (assuming the casual team has a medic) while in 6s he has to deal with 5…. It’s a lot easier to tank damage. It’s too strong at the moment.
Speaking from experience in nr6sVaccinator
I see that it’s not that great in high level play, but I feel that a team with 1 medic that’s competent with it could completely carry a team from Newcomer through Intermediate to be absolutely honest. Personally I’d be interested to see it reworked to deploy the shield from MvM, which makes medic more interactive (and you can do damage as a medic here) while also risking a player walking through the shield or behind it to drop you. A simple nerf at the moment would be to remove the passive bubble, but I’m more interested in the former.Machina
Sniper stronk + no real downsides + drops medics easierSydney Sleeper
Sniper typically builds up a bodyshot to kill meds anyway, this doesn’t have a huge downside. A 10% or even 5% damage penalty would put it in the realm of “not being able to 1 shot a medic” and would drop the viability.Eh
Jarate
Jarate is really really strong. But with the increasing speed of soldier and demos with the increased speed of medic…. I don’t know why you would EVER want to get close enough to POTENTIALLY jarate someone. If you miss you’re throwing, but if you hit them, you team might be able to push? Idk, it’d need to be tested more to get an opinion from me. -
RE: How is crouch peeking still not addressed?
@BoiSlipp This advantage exists for other classes than just sniper (heavy and soldier immediately come to mind), and the sniper has to do some weird positioning to pull it off. In this case with Product the sniper is standing on china away from where his teammates would be, ripe to get backstabbed with no repercussions. You have to be crouched, and have the wall on your right side and be peeking to the left, it’s not a huge deal. If you’re having problems with snipers, I’m going to assume that it’s because of that sniper’s skill level rather than them taking advantage of the crouch. Your sniper, spy, or soldier could take care of the sniper. If they’re positioning themselves in the same spot over and over just so they can do this, you can take advantage of that.
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RE: Favorite maps?
HL: Steel, Vigil
Sixes: Process, Sunshine, Clearcut
Casual: Upward, Badwater, Lakeside, Kong King, Nightfall, Pipeline -
RE: Competitive TF2, Harassment, and Volunteering
As someone who’s new to the competitive scene in TF2 it’s sad to say that this isn’t the first time I’ve heard of stuff like this happening in the competitive scene. In the pub setting it’s perpetuated that there are a lot of toxic people in competitive and harassment is normal. But after this read, and seeing the community for myself, they’re right. RGL is the only exception at the moment, which leads to a bunch of threads being mad that RGL doesn’t tolerate player misconduct like how other leagues turn a blind eye or give a slap on the wrist. Which makes me really appreciate RGL and that I started with it, I’ve only had to deal with a low amount of toxicity and the majority of experiences have been positive. The issue right now is that RGL isn’t totally independent from the rest of the community (yet), where most discussions are still mostly done on Tftv and pugging is out of RGL’s control as well (because of tf2center and other smaller pug communities)l. So players who get banned or in trouble for violating the rules can continue to play and spread the toxicity like a weed to the rest of the community through other means. The community is small, but it always seems like you can just go somewhere else if you can’t play somewhere at the moment. For example (in the current ruleset) if you’re a European that gets decent ping to the US you can play in RGL, ETF2L, and UGC (on top of pugging/community input on tftv/etc) so if you get banned/suspended from one, you can just play in another. As for the root of the issue, the tf2 scene did a really bad job of cracking down on harassment/toxicity for years of the scene to my understanding, and those years led to it being normalized to the point where people see anything that’s regulated as too far. I’m really hoping that RGL can continue the path it’s on, because if it does there are going to be (and already are) new players that now have the new standards as the norm, rather than the norm being stuff like the twitter post above.