Harassment in the RGL Community

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Topic created · 98 Posts · 1241 Views
  • rgl can ban people and that’s really all they can do, and that’s lovely. but if a harasser is already banned, they are kept in the scene by their friends who refuse to condemn their shitty behavior. i can think of several people who are permabanned by rgl but are still in the tf2 community and still harass people because their friends enable their behavior. rgl isn’t gonna ban by association, thats a PR disaster. that’s why this stuff is all systemic, and it isn’t just an easy fix of “just report them!”

    and a quick edit because i forgot to include this point: “just block them” sure but that doesn’t stop them from making alts to circumvent blocks and going out of their way to spread things about others. blocking them doesn’t mean “oh okay, i guess ill leave them alone now.”

  • I don’t understand why people keep bringing up arguments like “of course people dislike her because she was rude once” or “don’t give your twitter out if you don’t want people to see it”.

    I’ve been an asshole many times and nobody has ever body shamed me or making videos about how terrible I am. I have had my face and name publicly available for anyone to see for a long time now and I haven’t been doxxed.

    The issue isn’t that Rona did something wrong.

    Stop trying to deflect the blame onto the victim.

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  • I do not think it is necessary to ask about some of these things. There are very clear moral issues with some of these behaviors. A league ban is only going to do so much as long as these people have groups that continue to defend them and make them feel welcome in the community. Blocking only goes so far if there is a lack of respect for boundaries. If someone tells you no, be it directly by words or not, you have to respect that. It does not matter what you feel entitled to, or if you think they are being unfair; the reasoning behind their action should not matter to you, only the action. If you are going to circumvent boundaries, you can not without malice tell others to block rather than take action as a community. Ignoring things also does not make the underlying issues go away.

    What usually ends up happening more often than not in response to a block or ban from a group is that:
    A. They have organize things as a group that you can not just ignore
    B. Have friends continue to ask despite any discomfort it brings to you
    C. Try to continually alt and use underhanded methods to try to get what they want.
    This comes down to a lack of accountability and an inability to see yourself as possibly in the wrong. If anyone whatsoever defends them, they are going to be able to continue to feel like they are in the right.
    Other people contributing to these behaviors and being part of the problem does not mean you have to contribute to it as well, and it is very disheartening to see people who just go along with it. Other communities being bad does not mean that we have to be bad or worse as well, it is not a competition.

    Telling people to just block it, ignore it, and move on is such a poor rationalization of your own inability to hold yourself and others accountable. In addition, You should not have to conceal nor hide aspects of yourself in order to feel welcomed for your own identity.

  • I just want to put it out there that I didn’t intend for this thread to be about me.

    the document was written by me, about my experiences, but I didn’t write it wanting an apology from someone or something. I wrote it to use my experiences to start a discussion about harassment, mistreatment, and bullying in this community. I’m not the only person who has dealt with stuff like this, as evidenced by others in this thread and my own personal conversations with others.

    In my mind, this was something that needed to be addressed. This community continues to be a cesspool and parts of this thread prove that.

    I would appreciate if people stopped using this thread to call me as a person out. I never said I was perfect/guilt-free, I simply listed my experiences and my thoughts. If you have issues with me, bring it to me but please stop putting it here. I’m not saying I shouldn’t be held accountable for times I acted poorly, but more so that this is not the place.

    No matter how a person uses the internet personally, that doesn’t mean they should be doxxed. My personal instagram is private. The social medias that were found weren’t, but I shouldn’t have to deal with people going out of their way to find them. That’s stupid.

    Stop saying that because I did whatever, I deserved it. That is such a stupid argument. Being dumb in-game does not give people the right to make the video that they did, or doxx me, body-shame me, whatever. There are different levels to bullying/harassment/whatever.

  • @dlphn said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    @Kastaling said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    it’s literally just a word.

    you are a disgrace

    very productive reply, thank you for your thoughts!

  • why can’t people just be nice to each other 😞

  • you are a good person. people suck.

  • @Kastaling said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    If RGL ain’t banning whole harassment campaigns then once again, they’re at fault. But blocking those involved usually doesn’t give them much to work with. not feeding the trolls is internet 101 and many people forget that. Not saying that about anyone specifically, but a general thing.

    When our communications take place in public discords and other public spaces, blocking does nothing because they can easily use alts, or get a friend to do their screengrabbing for them. RGL banning people is good, but also I think people should be distancing themselves and saying these harassment behaviours aren’t acceptable. RGL also only focuses on behaviour on its platforms (and this isn’t a statement that the police should change, just acknowledgement) which means it’s up the community to hold up behaviours.

    this is getting a bit off topic, but to address this quickly: it’s literally just a word. also the main humor i get from that is that one of the most influential writers of the 20th century named his cat something like that, and its something that mainstream culture doesn’t really know about. Its literally the same joke as “the 25th island of Greece” or “the scientific name of a pig”.

    The other two things you listed are funny because they’re among us jokes which is pretty minor as far as jokes go. Lovecraft’s legacy is tinted with the fact that he was racist, and the reason the cat joke is funny to you is you’re tricking someone into seeing a racial slur. You may view racial slurs as just words, but you have to realize that people beyond you don’t feel that way. Tricking people into viewing something potentially upsetting is the underlying issue of toxicity.

    @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    I am saying this normal only exists because gamers /will/ rip you to shreds if they find out what you look like. (This also applies to your replay to fleeble, I just snipped it off for length

    I don’t think it’s just gamers in general, really just anyone online. if i post a picture of myself in a Mongolian basket-weaving forum such as 4chan on a thread I make, people are gonna meme it if they find a reason. if I do the same on reddit and people find a reason to meme my face, they will. its just a precaution one takes on the internet in general.

    4chan is not a fair comparison because that is also a terrible cesspit, and I wouldn’t post a selfie there either. On the other hand I’ve been on places on reddit, twitter, other smaller sites where people would post social selfies and…nothing bad happened. Because the mods of that community held up standards that selfies were okay, and people who made shitty comments about selfies were either removed or actively pushed aside.

    I will fully admit at this point we’re probably going to start talking past each other (I also feel like you skipped over my most salient post of my last post). And my point about lovecraft’s cat was probably more antagonizing than it needed to be, though I genuinely to believe that a causal attitude towards slurs is part of the problem.

    Please just consider how others feel about this stuff. Ultimately I’m not pushing back because I think you are a bad person or some shit, I want to convince people there is a real problem, and real change can happen.

    This is more for the whole thread but if you see something say something. try to confront people on toxic behaviour, or try to support them learning to undo toxic behaviour. and yes, I mean you whoever is reading this right now. change can happen if we work on it.

  • First.

    I have seen many individuals who make a regular habit of severely BMing opponents and trolling lower-div teams/new players, yet they are considered funny and their circles get very loudly pissed off when these individuals catch any consequences at all (whether league bans or social consequences). As harmful as this behavior is, not to mention so much worse and more prolonged than the OP’s outburst, I would certainly not wish for them to be harassed in the same way.


    Second.

    This is a bit of a message in a bottle, and I’ll bet most folks won’t even read through it, but if it reaches even one person who is slightly willing to listen, then I will try:

    It’s really, really difficult to imagine anything other than the way it is, if you’ve spent your whole online life in communities where harassment, casual bigotry, and so on are the total norm. It may not even register as such – “oh, I’ve seen worse”, “oh, it’s not like anybody meant it that way”, etc.

    The thing is that just because worse things exist, or just because someone didn’t “mean it”, doesn’t magically erase the negative consequences – the hostile environment that is being maintained by those habits and norms. And it doesn’t actually have to be that way! There are online communities – small, grassroots-style competitive gaming communities, even! – which are not like this, which thrive on making themselves welcoming, encouraging places. It can be so difficult to imagine if this is all you’ve experienced, but I promise you, it’s a thing.

    And, just because a community has a history of particular norms doesn’t mean it always has to be that way. Nor does the fact that one individual has a history of participating in, promoting, or turning a blind eye to particular behaviors mean that they always have to do that either. The important thing is what you do, right? Repair the damage that has been done, if you can and if the other person is willing. Learn from the past. Practice and improve for the future. The stakes are bigger than a videogame, but the process and mindset is pretty similar, I reckon.

    The world is a complicated and full of ups and downs. But given how bad the downswings can be, isn’t it better to try and make the rest as good as possible? Rather than building one’s identity defensively around Not Caring, isn’t it better to reduce the need for that defense mechanism? Rather than “how dare you impose limits on toxicity” or “life sucks, deal with it”, isn’t it ultimately more meaningful to ask “how can I make life suck less, both for myself and others”?

    You (we) (everyone) can do better. You (we) (everyone) always did deserve better.

  • @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    When our communications take place in public discords and other public spaces, blocking does nothing because they can easily use alts, or get a friend to do their screengrabbing for them. RGL banning people is good, but also I think people should be distancing themselves and saying these harassment behaviours aren’t acceptable. RGL also only focuses on behaviour on its platforms (and this isn’t a statement that the police should change, just acknowledgement) which means it’s up the community to hold up behaviours.

    I don’t disagree with anything you said here necessarily. I do agree that blocking isn’t 100% effective, but its better than doing nothing at all.

    @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    The other two things you listed are funny because they’re among us jokes which is pretty minor as far as jokes go. Lovecraft’s legacy is tinted with the fact that he was racist, and the reason the cat joke is funny to you is you’re tricking someone into seeing a racial slur. You may view racial slurs as just words, but you have to realize that people beyond you don’t feel that way. Tricking people into viewing something potentially upsetting is the underlying issue of toxicity.

    I mean, plenty of people find many things irrationally upsetting. There are people that find holes in close proximity to another literally nauseating. I personally find needles to make me extremely uncomfortable. If someone makes me see a needle in one way or another, I just calmly tell them that that makes me uncomfortable and to not show me something like that again, and if they aren’t a dick then they will oblige. Its as simple as that in my eyes. And I might just be an abnormality, but I’ve been called slurs to my face and I personally found it funny (and disappointing they couldn’t insult me for something that would actually say something about my character). It would be nice if slurs didn’t have power over people in general, but people continue to let them hold power of themselves.

    @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    4chan is not a fair comparison because that is also a terrible cesspit, and I wouldn’t post a selfie there either. On the other hand I’ve been on places on reddit, twitter, other smaller sites where people would post social selfies and…nothing bad happened. Because the mods of that community held up standards that selfies were okay, and people who made shitty comments about selfies were either removed or actively pushed aside.

    I will fully admit at this point we’re probably going to start talking past each other (I also feel like you skipped over my most salient post of my last post). And my point about lovecraft’s cat was probably more antagonizing than it needed to be, though I genuinely to believe that a causal attitude towards slurs is part of the problem.

    Please just consider how others feel about this stuff. Ultimately I’m not pushing back because I think you are a bad person or some shit, I want to convince people there is a real problem, and real change can happen.

    This is more for the whole thread but if you see something say something. try to confront people on toxic behaviour, or try to support them learning to undo toxic behaviour. and yes, I mean you whoever is reading this right now. change can happen if we work on it.

    maybe 4chan was a bad example, that’s a fair point. But it still definitely happens on reddit, or literally any part of the internet. I didn’t mean to talk past you and I try to address everything you said but sometimes I miss shit cause i can be a little scatterbrained cause of mental health shit sometimes lol.

    and some friends did inform me that I came across as a victim blamer in this thread and I absolutely did not mean to do so and I’m sorry if I did. I was just trying to share things that have worked for me in the past when I was harassed. but it would be nice if people just didn’t do these things, but that’s an impossible goal to achieve in the end.

  • there is absolutely zero excuse or justification for harassment

  • Some people in this community clearly need to take breaks from the internet to realize that certain things just aren’t okay and not socially accepted in the real world for a reason.

    Going out of your way to harass and bully people? Kinda weird man, do something better with your time.

    @Kastaling

    It would be nice if slurs didn’t have power over people in general, but people continue to let them hold power of themselves.

    Yeah it would be nice if words didnt hold such power, but this is real life. Some words have bad history to them and thus hold power. Which means you shouldn’t go around saying those words.

    Honestly the extent to which some people will go out of their way to dig up information on a person just to put them down and insult them is creepy and weird. Like seriously, get a life lmao.

  • Some people…smh. Weed them out.

  • idk man ive had my full name and various social medias out there for a pretty long time, have been toxic, am known for being Not Good, and nobodys ever made a video about my “gameplay”
    maybe i need to reject a cheater incel and then thatll do the trick

  • The amount of harassment and what you actions you receive it for for is also going to be dependent on how much you ingratiate yourself with the sorts of individuals who typically end up doing said harassment as well as the people you surround yourself with. Which is not exactly a great strategy when it comes to the long term growth of yourself nor the community.

  • as someone who has spent time around some of the people doing the harassing, i have been harassed far less than the many people who do their best to distance themselves from harassers

  • @Saturation What do you mean? Are you saying because you’re around the harassers you’re not getting harassed? I mean they probably welcome you cus you’re friends with them, but they end up harassing people who are “less skilled” or just genuinely have a grudge against them for no reason, especially when they don’t know them. Or even just behind their back, talking shit. Just because you don’t experience it as much as the next guy doesn’t mean someone else isn’t getting it worse than you. So, I don’t see any point in trying to defend that. Am I wrong? Please let me know. Nothing against you, I just want to know where you’re coming from.

  • @Bliztank Pretty much what I’m saying. If you don’t be around it in the first place it won’t happen - and as I said in a previous comment, take it on the chin and just keep away from it if you don’t want this to happen to you. RGL is NOT politics, everyone is going to have a different opinion on the story and some like to see what the other side has to say instead of instantly feeling bad for the victim . We can’t make any full on decisions with just one source, innocent until proven guilty is a thing.

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