Just another example of why Swiss system is bullshit. Don’t take the hate out on csn, focus it on Swiss. I’ll probably do another dumb spreadsheet breaking down swiss system or something like that, if I have the time. Same thing happened with bodybuilding.com and oWn a couple of seasons ago.

No offense to Crit Sandvich, I think they’re a surprisingly decent team, and you can only beat who you’re scheduled to play against, but their schedule was much easier than Flow’s.

Hopefully we’re able to do Round Robin next season.

really cool features, thanks for putting in the time to do these
however, at least for the stats search, i think you forgot to remove a test print statement or something, because my names always end with cum

So I’m in the process of trying to salvage a diet oWn team for next season, but if that falls through I’d like to play next season regardless. I want to prove myself as a top advanced or even low invite (stretch, i know, lmao) sniper without having oWn around me. I’d also be happy to sub in invite on sniper.

Otherwise, I’d be alright with trying a season on spy or soldier in advanced or high main, preferably with a friend and/or legacy team.

I watch demos religiously, I can secondary call, and I’ll push myself out of my comfort zone to do whatever the team needs me to do to win.

So nurkz and I are sticking together from oWn, with Joey Lemons as team mentor/cheerleader, along with some old oWn players subbing. Looking to be a fun mid adv/playoff contender team with cool dudes who don’t suck. Demo tryouts are our biggest priority, but solly, pyro, med, and engi tryouts would be nice to have too, but please have some decent advanced+ experience. Message me on discord for tryouts: tua#6935

Scout
patches

Soldier
wubs

Pyro
klowwd? raptoir? despy? lumiti? gabiduo?

Heavy
Nurkz

Demo
dt

Engineer
High Impact Dolphin

Medic
rona

Sniper
tua

Spy
zokie0

Subs
Stardust, tlar, raptoir, patrick

@Alto This. Just because something is harder to push doesn’t mean it’s inherently a worse map, imo it makes things much more skillful if you can consistently pull off quick times, you get a much bigger reward for being better at the map than the other team if you can cap 3-4 minutes faster than them consistently, rather than like 1-2 minutes on vigil or something.

Take old Nuke from csgo for example, or just a lot of the maps in the pool ~3+ years ago. Getting 5 rounds on T-side was good, but if you were skilled enough that you could win like 10 rounds T side, then you played so well that you were able to give yourself a significant advantage on the CT side. Maybe you weren’t a fan of nuke, but what I’m trying to say is that making things harder increases the skill ceiling, something we shouldn’t shy away from.

Obviously having a map be nearly impossible to push is dumb (I don’t wanna play some shit like Dustbowl last for example), but longer map times does not mean the map is inherently worse playwise at all, it only affects scrim times, but 12+ minute average time is still enough time finish scrims on time even with some added highlander time.

tl;dr Harder to push points (within reason) can raise the skill ceiling of the game

joey lemons for not cutting me

unironically make prolander the default competitive mode
smaller than HL so easier queues, can swap classes
still essentially the same game as what is played in casual, 6s to me feels as if i’m playing a completely different game that’s been awkwardly incorporated into the game

Hey so I have a bunch of irl commitments this summer I’d like to prioritize over HL, but I should be good to sub in s9. I think I’ve grown a lot since oWn, I’ve been grinding my aim harder than I ever have before, and I’m happy that I’ve learned how to play multiple styles of sniper.

I can obviously play sniper, but I feel fairly confident I can hang on engi, spy, scout, and solly. I can also do heavy if needed.

Invite would obviously be nice, but I’d be perfectly happy subbing on a challenger team.

don’t feel like writing a full essay right now, but swiftwater is the most tactically dense map in the game. The points are all so diverse and there are so many different ways to push them, unlike every other stopwatch map. People just don’t like it because 2nd is bad (every other point is awesome tho) and because they think long map = bad. That’s like saying a map is bad in csgo because it’s CT sided; harder to push means your tactical prowess/skill make a bigger difference and you get rewarded more for it.

@dlphn I agree with dolphin here

i started hl with rgl, I never played UGC. I would at least like to try the old maps that everyone says were meh and make up my own opinion rather than have someone with their head up their ass try to lecture me on why i shouldn’t even consider trying a map.

Maybe they’re not quite as bad as we remember, perhaps metas have shifted since then, especially with different weapon bans. At the very least let the zoomers who’ve never had the opportunity to try these maps see how bad they are so we can end this discussion and not have to debate on whether or not we should include borneo or whatever in the map pool. Many of the maps listed in end of season polls as potential swap ins haven’t been played in years, how can me and a huge chunk of the rgl playerbase who have never played them properly vote on whether or not they should be played?

Maps can still progress via testco and other map testing groups, map development isn’t going to grind to a screeching halt without this cup. Obviously getting an entire cup or even season would be ideal, but I also seriously doubt this is gonna be the last experimental cup ever.

Also i’m speaking about this as a player, not as a staff member, I didn’t take any part in the decision for this experimental cup.

@Alto
No offense taken, it seemed pretty clear to me that the results were not really super damning (or un-damning) for swiss, hence why I published it without any sort of real narrative or argument; i wanted people to interpret it freely and get a chance to look at what the numbers were before voting on the survey this season

I still believe RR is the best way to go and I’d much rather increase the amount of divs, more of which are running RR, than decrease the amount of divs and lump everyone together, that way every team is judged against much more similar criteria for making playoffs. We could even run something like what ESEA does with Premier now, two RR groups where top 4 from each make playoffs https://www.hltv.org/events/5885/esea-premier-season-37-europe

An alternate route would be just to play more matches, extending the season to 8 or 12 weeks so you have more datapoints to work with; the more matches played, the lower the chance of a meh team fluking their way to playoffs by getting disproportionate amounts of easy teams to play against

To have some sort of control group here, I added a tab to the google doc where you can see a similar breakdown for Challenger this season. Note that round robin will always have the top scoring teams with the “easiest” opponents because they didn’t have to play against themselves. Also note that the Willmatic team forfeited two games, so their opponents’ wins against them are essentially counted as against bye week, aka a 0 point team.

I’m sure there’s a cleaner statistical way to break this down and feel free to do so, I just don’t think I want to spend all day researching this lol

Rather than write another big essay on this, I figured I’d just present my findings when I investigated how Swiss System worked in Advanced this season. Teams with Earned Points in green made playoffs, red teams did not make playoffs.

G-League is excluded, as they died and earned 0 points, and wins against them are essentially considered equivalent to wins against bye week, though obviously bye week and g-league are not the same caliber of opposition

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tOXEc1-hsISrVVjBg1ZTw_MnoMzYtsyg51_zv2HPq78/edit?usp=sharing

Discuss.

Edit: changed permissions on doc so you guys can see it

Do you think maybe you could add Kills per minute in the future? Might be a better gauge than raw kills

v underrated sniper, does pretty well despite being held back by meh teams
he’s actually the benchmark I use to decide if someone is good enough to hang in Challenger on sniper, and i mean that in a positive way for powerpuker lol

don’t feel like writing a full essay right now, but swiftwater is the most tactically dense map in the game. The points are all so diverse and there are so many different ways to push them, unlike every other stopwatch map. People just don’t like it because 2nd is bad (every other point is awesome tho) and because they think long map = bad. That’s like saying a map is bad in csgo because it’s CT sided; harder to push means your tactical prowess/skill make a bigger difference and you get rewarded more for it.

@dlphn I agree with dolphin here

i started hl with rgl, I never played UGC. I would at least like to try the old maps that everyone says were meh and make up my own opinion rather than have someone with their head up their ass try to lecture me on why i shouldn’t even consider trying a map.

Maybe they’re not quite as bad as we remember, perhaps metas have shifted since then, especially with different weapon bans. At the very least let the zoomers who’ve never had the opportunity to try these maps see how bad they are so we can end this discussion and not have to debate on whether or not we should include borneo or whatever in the map pool. Many of the maps listed in end of season polls as potential swap ins haven’t been played in years, how can me and a huge chunk of the rgl playerbase who have never played them properly vote on whether or not they should be played?

Maps can still progress via testco and other map testing groups, map development isn’t going to grind to a screeching halt without this cup. Obviously getting an entire cup or even season would be ideal, but I also seriously doubt this is gonna be the last experimental cup ever.

Also i’m speaking about this as a player, not as a staff member, I didn’t take any part in the decision for this experimental cup.

gamer…

very quietly good soldier with lots of experience and a pretty cool guy to play with

Dave has been Challenger-ready on medic for several seasons now, he’s really quite good and very experienced

And if you need a demo that actually main calls then definitely give dave a tryout