@b4nny said in RGL Conduct Survey #4 Results, Global Rule Edits, & 2021 March/April Bans:
I am also not an admin responsible for the decisions made on this topic, but it does annoy me when I see this argument so I want to chime in. My understanding is that RGL is a “community league” because it is grassroots, built by players and members of the community, and isn’t owned by a major corporation, NOT because any decision it makes must empower every member of the community or that every decision must be made by community vote. Sometimes catering to the community is good, sometimes it is detrimental. In navigating that, the league admins should make decisions that are in its best interests that will benefit the success of the competitive scene, even if they may be unpopular with some members of the community.
I understand your point, and maybe this is the thought process that goes into a decision like this. If so, it would be better for someone at RGL to say so instead of ignoring the discussion. I’m not owed a response, but the alternative is that I disengage and discussions like these don’t exist. This argument exists on a different level from mine, and I still argue against the rule for the reasons I’ve given in this thread. I don’t think this rule is something that fits into a decision like you describe. I think it’s a bad decision for the league because it is a bad decision for the community; and I think that the idea that RGL should make unpopular decisions for the sake of the success of the competitive scene is not so strong that it justifies a decision like this.
I want a league to play highlander in. If RGL’s sole purpose is to grow the competitive TF2 scene, then there may be an argument for doing things like dropping HL to focus on 6v6 or disbanding a top team that is too dominant. RGL can certainly do these things using a similar justification, but I wouldn’t like these decisions and would be against them, even if they actually did somehow contribute to the success of the competitive scene.
Maybe a rule like this would be beneficial for 6s like you say, but I think the “community league” approach to HL is (or at least should be) different, and this might be where the disagreement is. Regardless, a “community league”, however you define it, shouldn’t be laughing off the idea of community content creators. RGL was started by community content creators.
@nabla said in RGL Conduct Survey #4 Results, Global Rule Edits, & 2021 March/April Bans:
If you want to make spy POV only casts of specific matches, just grab the STV demo later and cast from that. Nothing is stopping that in the RGL rulebook.
Sure, but this isn’t the show I’m trying to put on. I don’t think that it’s the same to do things like this from an STV demo as it is live, and this restriction exists unnecessarily.
It isn’t like admins haven’t considered other alternatives. Do you really think they just ignore that people are upset? I doubt it.
If they did ignore that people are upset, how would you expect people to respond? Like me? It seems like they have ignored me. What alternatives have they looked into? That’s the kind of discussion that I am looking for on this thread.
1.) Servers struggle with higher spectator counts. In the end, you will always have to resort to favoritism in terms of who gets access because giving it to too many spectators will have a detrimental impact on the gameserver/spectating experience.
I think that if RGL wanted to encourage things like this then they would look into ways to deal with the logistical issues. That could be better servers, investigating the relay issue, or even just setting up relays so that third parties can deal with the bugs while the official cast can sit in the base STV. Instead, RGL is giving up here and banning players for entering STV.
2.) Even if you bypass logistical issues, holding people accountable for match servers being ddosed / casts disrupted because of leaked info is always a worse solution than removing opportunities for that to happen in the first place.
That’s literally it.
I think that holding people accountable for casts being disrupted is not as hard as it’s being stated. Server operators can give STV info to players with high trust. If those high trust players give it out to lower trust, then RGL can talk to the server operator. The server operator knows who was given STV access, so the right person can be held accountable. Otherwise, the server operator would be held accountable and this fear would raise the bar of personal trust that the server operator requires for potential STV viewers.
I think that this is a moot point when the server IP and much more is essentially public in several ways:
- The in-game server browser has built in search, favorite, and history functionality.
- Game info can be viewed from the steam friends list. As far as I’m aware, it is not a requirement in RGL for players to hide this info.
- Servers are constantly reused, and anyone can compile a list of frequently used servers.
Additionally, anyone willing to give STV to someone willing to ddos something is also willing to give the server IP to someone willing to ddos something. This includes server operators.
You also need to understand that this rule exists in such a harsh form purely because its an issue thats not just an isolated case and seems to always happen whenever a ‘popular match’ comes about.
Server ops would give their stv info to Bowl, vryktion, and other randoms who want to cast. Magically that info would then end up in the hands of people who want to disrupt the match. Crazy how that works.
Players have had to move servers because their original started to lag once enough STV clients connected.
Blanket restricting STV is a very simple solution to an annoying set of problems you would otherwise forever play a game of whack-a-mole with, and removes an avenue for admins to abuse their power with favoritism.
I think that it’s too harsh and that there are better and smarter ways to prevent these things while still maintaining a culture of community content creation. Blanket banning anyone who enters STV might be a simple and easy solution for league admins, but that doesn’t justify it.
@Maven said in RGL Conduct Survey #4 Results, Global Rule Edits, & 2021 March/April Bans:
I also want to add that nobody in RGL wants to ban anyone. Ideally nobody does anything that gets them banned.
This is a nice sentiment, but it doesn’t mean anything. RGL does want to ban some players, but that’s a discussion for a different thread. “Ideally the players we want banned don’t exist.” RGL should want to ban cheaters. RGL should not want to ban players for entering STV.
It takes a good amount of time to make these posts, and it seems like the answer is just “no”, and I’m wasting my time. So, I probably won’t be posting much here unless there is a significant post. Thanks for the discussion so far.