Posts made by Mothership

@Grynn said in Bring back 5cp to hl:

@Mothership

I think the problems you and Exa listed aren’t necessarily problems with the map/game mode, but issues with the class. Half of what you said for engie gameplay on those maps were just sitting on sniper and wrangling, which is what engineer does on every other map anyways. But just because that’s what the “”meta”” is, doesn’t mean there’s more room for variability. On product you have little room for variability. That’s not the case when it comes to 5cp maps, and what I mean by a “breath of fresh air” is that there’s room for trying out more wacky strategies that will actually breed success rather than being forced to play the meta either because of social pressure or because there’s literally no other way to play the map (product concrete wrangler).

I don’t agree with this. What I listed out on all those maps were not the meta strategies, but the only strategies you could really do. Yeah, you could try funny level 3 strats, but its just the same as minis but with less metal. Yeah you could do Tele strats, but hiding the same teleporter on gullywash 2nd only works so many times, and that is ignoring the fact that doing so prevents your team from having teles at all (assuming they would even be able to use them in the first place).

You are extremely limited in what you can do as an engineer on any 5cp map since you are too slow and squishy, you are 100% reliant on the rest of your team to do anything. Any attempt to get behind will get you caught out and killed most of the time, and even if you get lucky and get a trade, it is not worth it 90% of the time since the respawn timers are not significantly different for either team. And because you are slow, even if you have faster spawns, you will still most likely get back to the front lines after the person you traded with.

Meanwhile I can name a bunch of things you could do differently on product. When I played, I mostly played around the combo and not the flank. Wrangling from pocket and denying that whole space so our demo can watch forward without getting rushed. You could also be a dumbass and just walk forward with the panic attack like J-man. At least on koth, any trades you make while you don’t have the point is a good trade.

Yeah, those issues are inherent because of engineer and not the gamemode, but 5cp locks you into those roles in a way that neither koth nor payload will.

My only successful attempt to try something “Wacky & Fun” was running perma level 2s and fj, annoying yipyapper who said it was a terrible idea.

@Velvet I am pretty sure you just need to read through those channels and react to something.

@cayorne said in Bring back 5cp to hl:

@Mothership very excited for the next map cup featuring synthetic, ramjam, and ashville_rc3a (has new lights in lobby)

can we actually try something for once please thanks

metas change, players change, strategies change, can we just actually use it for something for once.

I am not sure why you are saying that to me, I 100% agree with you.

My issue is that it is pointless to try and see if 5cp works if we already know the answer to that. (The answer is no)

are you getting an error or some other issue? To gain access to the Discord you must have a linked account. Which everyone should be able to do unless you are running into a site issue. The discord admins can alternatively try and help get you situated.

@lucki There is a reason I have not mained engineer since season 7

@Grynn said in Bring back 5cp to hl:

Speaking from an engineer perspective, 5cp is a breath of fresh air. It allows for a lot of variability in play which is great for one of the most boring classes in the game.

you do not have a lot of variability, just that you are more flexible because you being a hard support class are able to support your team in multiple chokes. However you are still a slow squishy class and can not do anything on your own.

Most my time on 5cp was spent sitting around waiting for my or the opposing team to do something. The best advice I gave to my mentees was to treat it like a top down strategy game. Pay attention to what is happening on the map, and rotate and respond accordingly.

This is how every map went.

cp_gullywash.

• Mid you sit at big door wrangling anyone off the point while you babysit your sniper.
• 2nd you sit at big door with your scout and solly, just hard wrangling anyone that peaks.
• On last you sit on the right side with a level 3 waiting for the uber exchange.

cp_process

• Mid you sit at choke with a wrangled mini while babysitting your sniper and medic.
• 2nd: The big debate is if you should watch sewers with your solly to prevent their sniper from being able to peak your whole 2nd, or if you have to rotate to IT because their solly is trying to sneak behind so he can hot drop your medic.
• Last you build a level 3.

cp_sunshine

• Mid. Wrangler at choke. hope you don’t get bombed by the flank solly.
• 2nd. hardcore defensive mini strats!
• last. same but with level 3s.

cp_vanguard

• Ditto

cp_glassworks

• I have a very distinct memory of sitting on a dispenser on last for 10 minutes while watching our demo spawn, die and then respawn over and over again bored out of my mind. I am pretty sure I just alt tabbed at some point to read manga until comms said they were finally pushing in.

edit:
If you are bored, just go watch this 5cp POV video of exa_ to get a taste of engineer on 5cp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOCfgaFpkA0

How bout everyone play some 5cp in your pug groups first instead of trying to force it into a map cup with very limited slots.

@Bliztank Hard to have a forum war when its such a laughable idea.

EDIT: I figured that if I am going to respond to the thread, I might as well actually respond to the thread.

The issues with 5cp are different for both sixes and HL. Sixes was built upon 5cp as it’s core gamemode and the issues it has with stalemates in my opinion are fundamentally different.

Stalemates in sixes mostly revolves around the player limits and how essential each of those players are. Hence why having a boring SvS or single sack waves are the norm. You are only ever able to lose one person, if you lose two, you lose the point. Hence why the new b4nny config exists, the timer exists as a means to force teams to make a move and not sit around waiting for the perfect advantage that you would lose the game/round to otherwise.

Highlander’s stalemates are induced not from teams lack of a willingness to push, but rather the team compositions themselves. You run a perma engineer, heavy, pyro, and sniper, all are great at denying space, angles, and pushes all in one go. This significantly slows the game down and, unlike with sixes, you could lose 1/3 of your team and still be able to hold the point. 1/3 of your team could just be your scout, spy, heavy and you are still going to be able to hold gullywash mid no problem at all.

To conclude, I think the b4nny config would help, but not enough to actually solve the issues with 5cp and HL. I would much rather we throw maps into the map cup that have active devs and have an actual chance of being played.

@Lance It takes time for the steam API to make these changes. I would give it up to 24 hours before wondering what is wrong, especially if you do have all the correct settings on steam.

testtesttest

@firepow said in Mainstreaming RGL:

• Developing the pug site.
• Promoting RGL through advertising and outreach
• Working with the video team to churn out new content

Those are all completely different departments within RGL. And not a singular person should have all those responsibilities.

The honest truth is the best thing anyone can do to promote active change is to volunteer for those teams/positions.

@Flare There is always the option to ditch rounds in favor of halfs for koth. First to 2 wins the half., best of 3 halfs.

@vibeisveryo
I do not know why its showing up like that.

1. test
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1. test
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Vibe pretty much hit the nail on the head, so I won’t continue that discussion, and just return to the topic at hand. Although for the record, I know what Ranked-Choice voting is, it is the system I used for my post-season favorite map polls that I made on the forums a while back.

Lets discuss and compare the current HL system to Sixes. Sixes uses a Win/Loss system, with MP only serving as a tie breaker at the end of the season. This system has no issues with Sixes because they play two matches a week and their season is also an extra week longer. This means while HL only has 7 matches for their regular season, Sixes has 16. Lets look at the rankings from last season of Sixes vs HL to show it visually.

I am a proponent of a Round-MP system like you want. I believe that it is a better way to rank teams when teams are evenly matched and gives more weight to how well a team actually plays during the regular season, leading to less overall skilled teams making it to playoffs and creating terribly unbalanced playoffs brackets. It also means that because each round is counted, it puts more emphasis on preforming the best at all times, and rewards teams for being able to take rounds against teams that were going to lose against anyways. I.E. it rewards consistency throughout the season. This would ideally also move us away from having to rely on RR styled match ups since swiss with Rounds won/lost would be a more accurate way of setting up matches and allow us more flexability instead of being div locked into the number of matches+1.

However, the reality is that Win/Loss is what mostly everyone uses from professional sports, other E-sports, etc. And while Round-MP IMO is better for accurately judging the skill level of teams, It is harder to people to quantify compared to something as simple as Win/Loss. Not only that, but as you play more games throughout the season, how much Rounds matter vs Win/Loss decreases exponentially.

If we should do anything, we should be trying to make all our league formats use the same systems to better align what we want as a comp tf2 community as a whole, and unless we are going to get sixes to use our system or even round-MP, the best option is for us to switch to Win/Loss instead.

@Inquisition In the context of the poll, none of them have pure round MP as an option (what you want), its all referencing the current system we have. At this point you are just inferring whatever you want from these polls to fit your narrative.

You cannot say that these polls are flawed

@Inquisition said in Highlander Match Point System:

Just to add my two cents on these surveys, you’ve failed to learn anything correctly because you’re using multiple options without a rank choice system. Also, because you said ‘keep it how it is’ and ‘change it’ instead of explicitly stating what the current system is, or what the changes would you be, you pull in votes from people who are indifferent, and introduce a bias from people who don’t actually know what the current system is.

While also claiming

@Inquisition said in Highlander Match Point System:

The season 3 poll and the season 7 polls are what I have been referencing. Also, as per my statements above, the season 4 poll does not show any conclusive information, whereas the other two polls show with certainty that win/loss is not preferred.

At this point, I would not be surprised if some of the things you have said turn into a forum copypasta.

@Inquisition I agree that the forums do not represent a majority of players, however these forums whole purpose is to facilitate discussion and debate in a way that a simple poll can not always find a proper solution for. There has also been many polls that have happened because of forum posts. The most recent example is the July 4th break that happened recently.

Also the system is not inconsistent with itself. Here is a screenshot I had saved from when this came up previously:

The winning team always gets 2 MP, the losing team then gets MP based off the rounds taken, up to 1MP. Payload is easy to do because you can only win one round, while koth has more rounds to be able to take/lose more points off of.

EDIT: You can also view the new breakdown via https://rgl.gg/?a=1617

Unless you can provide the poll results itself instead of saying that another admin told you, it is nothing but hearsay.

On that note, I was not able to find any of the poll results for what you are refrencing (500 error on the article list page) but I am able to refrence the previous forum threads about MP. Most of the people in those threads prefer Win/Loss over Rounds. That in itself makes me question even more where you got your information from or even how old that survey is.

https://forums.rgl.gg/topic/1848/matchpoints-on-king-of-the-hill-hl-ruleset

https://forums.rgl.gg/topic/1907/seasonal-point-system-sucks-thread

Open Fortress Source: https://openfortress.fun/blog/welcome-back

TF2 Classic Source: https://tf2classic.com/?id=5380

Open Fortress Blog

Hello, everyone part of the Open Fortress community. We have decided that we are now going to re-open the game back to the general public.

Ever since the day we got the first email from Valve asking us to take down the game, it has take a toll on not only us, but you, the community. In the time that you were all waiting for us to give you information as to what was going on - we were in the background sending emails back and forth to Valve to see if there was a way that they could help us in getting the proper things in order to get the game on Steam.

After some time had passed we never really got a response back from them. We waited, thinking that they would eventually get back to us, but they never did.

We have now taken it upon ourselves to bring the game back. We hate seeing you as a community sit and wonder what has happened and when we will ever return. As an ending note, please do not bring hate towards Valve over this. They are a big company and have other things that they need to tend to that are way more important.

-OF Team

TF2 Classic Blog

As we’ve mentioned in the past, we had gotten in contact with Valve about a few questions regarding TF2 Sourcemods. In particular, about their stance on reverse-engineering, as the Open Fortress team was working on a reverse-engineered TF2 base to use in place of the 2008 leaked source code that most TF2 mods at the moment use.

In short, their response stated that, while the Software Service Agreement allowed for modding to a certain extent, it both does not apply to the leaked code, and forbids the use of reverse-engineering. As such, they asked us to “stop distributing reverse engineered or leaked code, including anything compiled using that code or otherwise derived from it.”

In the same email, Valve made it clear to us that they recognize and appreciate the creativity and motivation of the TF2 community, and were internally discussing the best way to let us express it. They asked us if we were interested in releasing our projects in the form of a mod on Steam, which would have required work from both parties.

We sent them a response confirming that we would suspend downloads, alongside stating that we were very much interested in a Steam release, along with a few questions.

Unfortunately, Valve has not responded to us in any form, despite us trying various ways to contact them after this initial email. Due to the lack of response, we’ve tried contacting them in multiple different ways, including through Steam support. On March 10, around 6 months after their last reply, we decided to send a final email announcing that we plan on opening our downloads back up until they re-affirm that they want us to keep them down. So our reasons for re-opening are due, in short, to the lack of response from Valve.

@lenn said in Class restrictions for players with excessive ping (or bad internet?):

i also dont understand why people think im the team leader? i dont chose the players on my team and this is my personal opinion on why high ping players shouldnt be allowed on sniper in any scenario.

No one said you were the team leader, but by agreeing to join this team, you agreed with everyone on whatever classes they were playing. This includes your apparently high ping sniper. I.E. You are being contradictory with your words and actions. I would honestly stop bring this point up as its low hanging fruit that is not important towards your overall point/arguement.

but anyway i think this is a bigger deal in 6s than highlander since it does handicap you in the svs if you’re not the one peaking them. (which you should be doing on high ping)

How is it a bigger deal in 6’s due to SvS, than HL that has perma snipers???

RGL does have rules against players who are laggy/teleporting around, causing the game to be unfair/unplayable. However you need to remember that high ping isnt an advantage, yes you can get shot from around corners since they on their screen you are still there, but it works the other way as well. You can kill them before they even have time to react, because you are not even on their screen yet.

High ping is not the issue.

Also having ping limits is completely unenforceable as ping within locations with poor connection can fluctuate. One day it can be below 150, another above. Not to mention depending on location. I get ~80 ping to LA, ~100 to Dallas, and ~130 to chicago.

@BBL One thing to note is that HL used to have player fees instead of team fees. However people complained ( I do not recall the thread on the old forums) and thus it was changed to team fees.

IIRC, it was something about teenagers not being able to pay the fees because they were poor or had to jump through too many hoops to turn cash into paypal money or something. Someone else might have a better memory of it.