A new post/thread like this comes up every year it seems, but as she wrote, nothing has really changed each time. The reason being that there are next to no consequences on the TF2 platforms for engaging in harassment or hateful behavior, particularly in places like TFTV and ETF2L. As one example: there are multiple people that have been banned for harassment on RGL that are some of the most active posters on TFTV forums/discord. That’s a bad sign, and only leads to the perpetuation of harassment culture. If you are a person that brings harm to the community, you should be removed from the community through bans across the board from forums, leagues, pugs, etc. Sure that will not stop all off-platform behavior but it’s at least some deterrent. Trust me when I say that a lot of these kids are quite attached to competitive TF2 and would feel these consequences.

That being said, I do think RGL has been one of the only organizations that has been willing to put their foot down on this. It could always be better, but I don’t think any other organization has even come close. Some try to perpetuate a narrative that RGL is harming the community through a more hands-on approach, but it just doesn’t prove true when you look at the statistics and feedback collected through surveys. Always remember that often the most vocal critics are the exact people that engage in harmful behavior, so their motives to resist are clear, and almost a sign that you’re on the right path. It is the mostly-silent majority that are the real community of RGL. In a large part, I hope that these forums may help to bring some of those people forward once they know that they can actually engage in welcoming and constructive discussions here. This is how the culture changes, by opening the door to drowning out the negativity.

Competitive TF2 is a small community, and needs to be moderated more along the lines of a private club than as a public utility. We should be willing to shed the worst parts of the community that are dragging us down so that we can thrive in an environment that is wholesome, constructive, welcoming, competitive/game-focused, etc. We should be willing to lose a corrupted veteran in order to make way for a positive newcomer. In the long run, this will bear the greatest change. We’ve already seen how efforts to make TF2 more accessible have led to the great growth of RGL over the past year. For the sake of the competitive TF2 community RGL must stay committed to this goal.

Bodyshot them and move on.

Exciting stuff, and it’s looking good!

I miss the era of all-night high level pugs, and been waiting patiently for this system in hopes that it can deliver an experience like that.

@sigafoo said in Competitive TF2, Harassment, and Volunteering:

I would argue it’s the inverse, having lax policies and enabling bad behavior drives more people away than bans. This is one of the main reasons that RGL has grown in my opinion, is through our moderation. Every six months we’ve posted about 20-40% growth over the previous six months of the total registered player count in this “dead game” for the last three years.

This is the most important part that is often overlooked by those who claim their edgy behavior is benign. Through the cultural damage done by hateful conduct, it brings harmful repercussions to the entire community and league. What you may think is only relevant to the people in the server at the time can actually negatively affect the overall culture and perception of the community, which is essential to protect in order to maintain RGL as a place that is welcoming of new players. If someone is harming the league, it is perfectly reasonable for RGL to take action.

I quite dislike the current wording around the lack of scrutiny of off-platform behavior such as Steam/Discord PMs, as those can be some of the most potent tools bad actors will use to directly harass people, and can still contribute to the same problem of cultural degeneration.

@shotaway said in RGL Conduct Survey #4 Results, Global Rule Edits, & 2021 March/April Bans:

I hope that this attitude doesn’t exist within RGL staff. It’s supposed to be a community league?

RGL is supposed to be a community league. Placing the interests of the league above the community is a problem in this case. RGL certainly can screw community content (which seems to be the case based on your earlier comment) to suit its own interests, but I have problems with that. It is for this reason that I made these posts. There are better ways to lower the frequency of cast disruption that don’t involve shutting down community content in a community league.

I am also not an admin responsible for the decisions made on this topic, but it does annoy me when I see this argument so I want to chime in. My understanding is that RGL is a “community league” because it is grassroots, built by players and members of the community, and isn’t owned by a major corporation, NOT because any decision it makes must empower every member of the community or that every decision must be made by community vote. Sometimes catering to the community is good, sometimes it is detrimental. In navigating that, the league admins should make decisions that are in its best interests that will benefit the success of the competitive scene, even if they may be unpopular with some members of the community.

Hoping the Halloween versions of Badwater and Upward are fun.

Bit of feedback after looking around.

Sniper sightlines out of last-point spawn doors may be a bit too strong.

Extending this ledge on mid to wrap all the way around the corner would help for soldiers to have a spot to jump to when busting through choke. Shouldn’t be too strong for defense due to the back wall making it an easy spot to splash if people linger too long.

On 2nd point, a bit more height would help to promote more aggressive defenses around the choke, and also provide more options for soldiers as they bust through choke.

I picture a ledge here built from those giant pipes.

I picture a small pipe running across here.

Hope it helps. Map is coming along well!

Glad to see so many people as excited about this project as I am. The showmatches were really fun, and it was only a glimpse of the fully fledged system. Once everything is all up and running it should be even better. Seems that among the next steps will be to gather feedback, fix bugs, and eventually run a larger scale test to start calibrating the ranking system.

A shitfest that could have been avoided at about a dozen different points. But it will certainly make the tension of the match much higher.

Quaker Simply Granola

@shotaway said in RGL Conduct Survey #4 Results, Global Rule Edits, & 2021 March/April Bans:

I hope that this attitude doesn’t exist within RGL staff. It’s supposed to be a community league?

RGL is supposed to be a community league. Placing the interests of the league above the community is a problem in this case. RGL certainly can screw community content (which seems to be the case based on your earlier comment) to suit its own interests, but I have problems with that. It is for this reason that I made these posts. There are better ways to lower the frequency of cast disruption that don’t involve shutting down community content in a community league.

I am also not an admin responsible for the decisions made on this topic, but it does annoy me when I see this argument so I want to chime in. My understanding is that RGL is a “community league” because it is grassroots, built by players and members of the community, and isn’t owned by a major corporation, NOT because any decision it makes must empower every member of the community or that every decision must be made by community vote. Sometimes catering to the community is good, sometimes it is detrimental. In navigating that, the league admins should make decisions that are in its best interests that will benefit the success of the competitive scene, even if they may be unpopular with some members of the community.

@Micahlele said in Announcing the RGL No Restriction 6s Summer One Day Cup:

…

I have plenty of respect for several members of the RGL administration, but you seem to think that if you are an admin you should get a free pass to drop the ball and be praised for it. RGL is an organization that has so much potential to do good in the TF2 scene, so I am always advocating for change and improvement where I can, to help keep things progressing on the right track. Maybe that rubs some people the wrong way, but the end results are worth it in my opinion. NR6s as a format is an important thing that should not be mismanaged. If you can’t handle some direct feedback on ways you can improve as an admin when you have such a crucial job, it’s simply just not the right fit for you. I’m glad to hear you’re going to step away from this discussion about NR6s though, that’s probably the first mature thing I’ve ever seen you do. We’ll see if you can actually follow through.

@Micahlele said in Announcing the RGL No Restriction 6s Summer One Day Cup:

…

Unfortunately it seems you are just infinitely doubling down, shouting louder and louder, and are incapable of acknowledging your missteps as an admin. If you want to successfully lead anything, whether it be a team or a project, you have to be able to withstand the challenges and then also take ownership for the outcome - good or bad. I was a player and advocate for the format. You were the head admin of the league. You had all the power to make the event successful, but didn’t in a few key areas. It happens. The best thing to do is always to reflect and learn from your mistakes. Giving up, throwing a tantrum and deflecting all responsibility is not the way, and certainly no way to earn respect. Your attempt to sabotage the upcoming NR6s event and stir up drama may win the support of your fellow spy main edgelords, but it won’t make you right and it won’t make you better in the long run.

To any onlookers or people interested in NR6s, don’t let one jaded doomer discourage you from signing up and playing. It’s a free 1 day cup on mostly familiar 6s maps, but I can guarantee you that the gameplay you’ll encounter will give you a very fresh and unique new outlook on competitive TF2. In NR6s, the possibilities are basically endless. Looking forward to see what you come up with in-game. See you there.

@Micahlele said in Announcing the RGL No Restriction 6s Summer One Day Cup:

…

I am quite capable of playing matches, all you needed to do was message me a single time so we could figure it out. You were the admin of the format, and apparently you care a lot about it, so it’s really the least you could do. Ultimately it’s your responsibility as an admin to be on top of that kind of stuff and there’s really nothing more to it. It has never been an issue for any other admin in any other division of RGL. I don’t know what was going on between both you and daffodil, but clearly there was a failure of communication that can’t be denied.

It’s also quite clear that you don’t care about NR6s, don’t understand the value of it, and don’t align with the spirit of the format. That’s fine, and not uncommon. But going out of your way to try to trash on the upcoming event and format is quite unnecessary. The first season of NR6s was very successful because it was collaborative and inviting to people throughout the community. It focused on positivity and fresh ideas. You took the opposite approach with S2 for some reason, and almost every shortcoming was a direct result of that. Much of the S1 prizes that you’re referencing (that supposedly enticed me to play) were literally provided by me. The bulk of S1 promotion was done by me. I worked closely with sigafoo to design the S1 format. I was here ready to do it all over again for S2, but you opted to throw everything that worked from S1 out the window just because you couldn’t go out of your way to message me. As I said previously, thankfully the staff organizing the upcoming event are much more open to collaboration, and allowing the failures of S2 to guide them towards an improved format. I don’t even know you tbh, yet you’re still holding a fiercely pointless grudge and then exploded into an unhinged rant when the person you should really be blaming is yourself. If you can find it in yourself to own up to your mistakes from S2 and approach it with an open mind, I would encourage you to give it another shot and participate. If not, then ultimately it might be better for everyone that you’ve stepped away from RGL and NR6s after all.

@Micahlele said in Announcing the RGL No Restriction 6s Summer One Day Cup:

@b4nny are you actually gonna play your matches this time

Of course, I always try to get my matches played. Unfortunately during NR6s S2 our opponent (head 6s admin at the time, daffodil) refused to schedule the matches despite my repeated attempts, and the NR6s admin (you) made 0 effort to communicate or coordinate with me, so the games never ended up happening. I’ve already explained this multiple times to you in the RGL discord, yet here you are yet again for some reason still trying to stir up drama in public. Do you even actually care about the success of the NR6s format? If so, then don’t worry about whether I play my matches, just worry about your own participation in the event.

Thankfully, the organizers responsible for this new upcoming NR6s event have learned from the missteps of NR6s S2 and it’s looking to be very positive event. I’m sure it won’t be perfect either, but they’re on the right track so far given that they’ve improved the format (better maps and a 1 day format) and their communication (multiple announcements, and keeping me - one of the most vocal NR6s supporters - in the loop) which should greatly benefit the event’s chances of success. One of the main points of NR6s is to leave your biases and theories behind so that innovative and fresh tactics can prevail, let’s all focus on doing that.

Glad to see NR6s back. There are a lot of weapons that are currently banned that would be inconsequential if unbanned, so this can help to serve as a great opportunity to prove that.

A shitfest that could have been avoided at about a dozen different points. But it will certainly make the tension of the match much higher.

Bodyshot them and move on.

Glad to see so many people as excited about this project as I am. The showmatches were really fun, and it was only a glimpse of the fully fledged system. Once everything is all up and running it should be even better. Seems that among the next steps will be to gather feedback, fix bugs, and eventually run a larger scale test to start calibrating the ranking system.

Gonna be taking a sneak peek into the RGL PUGs Technical Alpha tonight on my stream: http://twitch.tv/b4nny

We will be doing an overview of the site and its features, and running a showmatch!