@BMPD said in Enforcer Ban Discussion:
@Niko-Jims I only see Enforcer on Payload and it’s really only used for spies as a means to pepper down sentries and counters an engineer just pulling out the wrangler and running to his gun as he does when any other class is trying to take it down. The defensive leveled gun on every payload is usually one of the main deterrents for the offensive team trying to push and having a strategy that would focus taking it down, at the cost spy’s better guns for fighting, keeps the game going at a faster pace.
I do not think the 20% slower firing speed is enough of a deterrent. If the gun was actual ass at killing things (ex. Pompson) I would reconsider but it’s not. It’s a revolver that shoots 20% slower.
@High-Impact-Dolphin said in Enforcer Ban Discussion:
@Niko-Jims said in Enforcer Ban Discussion:
That implies that the Enforcer has been run since it got changed. Prior to this season, very few spies actually ran it. In fact, prior to this season, I remember only encountering it twice.
i will not lie, i don’t think anyone outside of the highest-level players even knew that the resistance-piercing worked on the wrangler, i know i’ve had to explain it to basically everyone i play with
Yes, it’s not odd in this community to step over strong weapons. No one used the Sandman and Soda Popper for years before the general consensus was made for them.
This forces the Engineer to either run mini’s or put the level 3 in a less efficient spot (ex. Window).
doesn’t this just make it an inherently less efficient spot if it can be made obsolete? isn’t it in theory healthier for the stopwatch engineer meta to not stagnate into sets of the “most efficient” spots? (although rereading this, i think it already has)
Jail is and always has been considered the most efficient spot on Steel E. Even with it being counterable with sacs and proper pressure, it has been used for years upon years. And while in theory that may seem true, the issue is that nothing else has changed. Engineer didn’t get buffed/nerfed, no new tools, nothing has changed at all (same maps etc.), people just realized that the Enforcer is actually good. Actual meta change was when the RR got nerfed and Engineers started running Shotguns for the first time since the RR was introduced. All this will do is most likely make RR’s meta again instead of being an option. If anything it’s a regression. Barely any, if any, gun spots will change, because every spot already had this issue, it’s just that the Revolver didn’t do enough damage to make it relevant outside of niche opportunities.
on pl, the spy standing very far away to shoot is either in a sniper sightline and/or can be chased down by your scout, and the shots can be blocked by your pyro who can mostly rest easy knowing the spy is occupied
there’s plenty of counterplay to the enforcer, which is only ever run to counter ONE unlock
This is not true, there are spots where the Spy can get away scot free. The issue with the Scout theory is that it won’t always be a viable option. Consider Swiftwater 2nd. Spy decloaks by spawn and Enforcers your gun. Even if your Scout could get there in time, you are removing the Scout from the tunnel, which would most likely result in losing tunnel, all to stop a spy who most likely has already killed your gun. If your Pyro goes to body block, the enemy team enters upper for practically free. I suppose you could have your Heavy body block, but that still doesn’t change the fact that either you drop tunnel or hope your Sniper can pick him off.
The weakest class in HL does not need a direct counter to the only weapon keeping it relevant.
i think pyro is a little worse but that’s not really what matters
this line makes it sound as though you don’t want to play engineer as much as you want to have impact using the wrangler, which i guess makes sense considering the class is not good, but it’s important to realize that specialists will never and should never be as effective as the generalists because thats what makes highlander interesting
I made this topic because I want to play Engineer and enjoy myself. The Enforcer is incredibly good at fucking up sentries and being able to do such practically wherever you want does not sound fun or intuitive at all for Engineers, nor does it seem healthy for the meta.
fact of the matter is that engineer would still serve some purpose without the wrangler at all, and advocating for a ban against THE ONLY direct counter to it, which itself has counterplay, seems a little silly to me
Obviously, but that doesn’t mean it’s healthy for the game. No wrangler has been tried by EU’s and the general consensus was that Payload Defense was a joke because of it. For years people have been dealing with PL defense sentries just fine, I’m not sure why it’s fine that a weapon will now just effortlessly do the job because people remembered it exists, which is a reoccurring theme in this gamemode.
I’m normally fine with meta changes if they are for the betterment of the game. I ended up being happy with the RR nerf because it made shotguns viable again. It was a fresh breath of air for me. I’ve been playing Engineer for many many years, I have experienced almost every single meta change that has happened in the past 8 years. I do not see a bright future for this new meta if this season has taught me anything. Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like I’m not.