How is crouch peeking still not addressed?

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  • Playing an official where all the enemy sniper does is crouch peek is quite absurd because it’s not too different from one player simply drinking an invincibility potion during a sniper duel. I still don’t understand why RGL has not acted on this when it gives one of the players a significant advantage if the other sniper doesn’t have a wall on their right to abuse the bug themselves. Even ETF2L banned this a long time ago. I think it’s about time we get a response as to why there has been no ruling against this bug in competitive play.

    Example of the bug in action:

  • Bodyshot them and move on.

  • @b4nny Well, good snipers usually have a good medic who keeps them overhealed, so by the time you go for the body shot and still somehow manage to hit the 1 pixel of their hitbox that’s sticking out, they’ll be alive and you will be headshotted because the glitch-abusing sniper is gonna see you way earlier than you will see them. Correct me if I’m wrong.

  • This isnt a big enough deal to warrant any league action IMO. Theres plenty of ways to deal with it as well (depending on the map), but literally just fully charge bodyshot them and keep bodyshotting them lol, it may be annoying asf but i dont think it should get anybody banned or anything like that.

  • @nyxi Seriously? Just body shot them? I can’t see the logic here.
    If a sniper is overhealed and you bodyshot him that is a 100% free kill there unless that sniper worked with someone at the exact same time.
    Sniper is already a powerful class. Lets make him more powerful by forcing the team to fight harder because of a game “mechanic”.

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  • Yo it do be annoying doe

  • @TheS4rr It really is.

  • @nyxi I get that it may not be as lethal in high ranks, but this strat simply dominates on lower skill levels. The majority of TF2 comp is not in invite, and they are the main people who dislike this crouch peek shit. We were getting dominated by a sniper abusing this in every possible situation in our official (but we still won, and no I am not a sniper main at all). I know other teams who also get dominated by it in Amateur or Intermediate, but no one ends up bring it up in the end.

  • @BoiSlipp the reason lower level players get dominated by stuff like this is just that. they’re lower level players. learning to adapt to small things like that is part of the game. the other team’s sniper is almost never going to be fully buffed doing this peek, and if your sniper full charge bodyshots them and they don’t die because the rest of your team isn’t spamming the sniper… tough luck.

    this issue is not widespread. even if it were widespread, i don’t think it should be banned because it’s just awareness of how the game works. it’s not unfair enough that it will likely change the outcome of a game and it’s beatable; one long range soldier rocket puts them in range of a bodyshot.

    also, idk where you’re getting the “still somehow manage to hit the 1 pixel of their hitbox that’s sticking out, they’ll be alive and you will be headshotted because the glitch-abusing sniper is gonna see you way earlier than you will see them”. this is COMPLETELY untrue. source engine has peeker’s advantage; the peeker, as long as they’re peeking far from a corner, will see the side of the other sniper before the other sniper can see any part of them. even ignoring peeker’s advantage - half of the sniper’s hitbox is sticking out, not 1 pixel lmao

  • as a heavy main that doesnt respect sniper sightlines, dont peek snipers

  • I understand the concern about Invite players not necessarily understanding the experiences of lower-div players, especially if they have been in Invite for a long time rather than being newly Invite.

    To that I would offer up my own experience, with two recent seasons in low divs and currently being in a middling sort of place, listening to what my Snipers complain about – which is mostly that the other Sniper is getting more buffs, or that we aren’t pressuring the other team enough, or that we aren’t watching our own Sniper’s back, or that some enemy player(s) are horribly laggy/high-ping, or that the other Sniper has too much experience for this division, etc.

    I absolutely don’t enjoy being instakilled from six million miles away and not being able to do anything back at the source of the suffering. At the same time, “crouch peeking” isn’t something that I’ve personally heard complaints about from my own teammates so far, even in games where the other team’s Sniper is in fact dominating.

  • @BoiSlipp This advantage exists for other classes than just sniper (heavy and soldier immediately come to mind), and the sniper has to do some weird positioning to pull it off. In this case with Product the sniper is standing on china away from where his teammates would be, ripe to get backstabbed with no repercussions. You have to be crouched, and have the wall on your right side and be peeking to the left, it’s not a huge deal. If you’re having problems with snipers, I’m going to assume that it’s because of that sniper’s skill level rather than them taking advantage of the crouch. Your sniper, spy, or soldier could take care of the sniper. If they’re positioning themselves in the same spot over and over just so they can do this, you can take advantage of that.

  • @TheSovietOneYouHate like pajaro said its rare for a sniper to be sitting in a crouch peek position and have a constant buff. When a sniper is in a spot like that they are pretty immobile and probably in the open. Soldiers can bomb, spies can decloak, demos can spam, snipers can rotate and peek from different angles, scouts can flank or the entire team can just fight from somewhere thats not in his sightline. Theres so many ways to counter it, its not impossible and id even say that if a team cant properly pressure an immobile, crouched sniper out of position without dying to him then they have more important things to worry about than the sniper and how he peeked.

  • Don’t only look at this 1 angle. It’s abusable wherever there’s a right wall. Upward 3rd offense (house), Upward last defense sitting on bridge, and so forth.

    It’s not just this one instance but can be extrapolated to others.

    It was very rampantly abused in EU/ETF2L, hence why it’s banned.

    Imo, this will become something very similar to how machina wasn’t banned in ugc forever. It caught traction over 1-2 seasons and was instantly banned. Sure it’s different, weapon vs hitbox manipulation, but somewhat the same.

    I don’t have a stance whether or not it should be banned, but cherry picking on this one angle in regards to buff status (just bodyshot him 4head) is disingenuous.

  • @pajaro Ah yes. The classic “just aim better dumbass” response. Not everyone can instantly become an invite player, but this peek bug allows a trash sniper to dominate in lower divs because of their ability to live in every single sniper duel if they are overhealed, which they always are. Snipers who abuse this know that their only vulnerability in a SvS is bodyshots, so no shit they will ask for an overheal before doing the bug.

    1. “the other team’s sniper is almost never going to be fully buffed doing this peek”. Where are you even getting this information from? I can come up with 2 spots off the top of my head just on viaduct, a small koth map, where the sniper can abuse this glitch and still be in my beam’s range. House entrance and top of cliff (where the wall is to his right), so you’re simply wrong there.

    2. “it’s not unfair enough that it will likely change the outcome of a game and it’s beatable”. You can say that anything is beatable with your logic then. If a sniper found a glitch that gives him 1000 hp, just send a soldier, demo, scout, sniper, and spy at them. Simple counter right? On top of that, if this is ‘part of the game’ like you like to call it, get rid of weapon bans in RGL. They are part of the game as well, aren’t they?

    3. “idk where you’re getting the ‘[1 pixel argument]’ from”. I was talking about the other sniper’s head in that sentence. There is almost literally 1 pixel of their head’s hitbox that is sticking out for you to be able to headshot them. It’s somewhere between the neck and the jaw. This clip shows it better:

    4. “source engine has peeker’s advantage”. You might have to redo your research on source engine then…at least in this case:

  • @QueeQuey I understand what you mean. I just want to make it clear that I never said that there are no counters to this; I simply wanted to know why this has not been addressed yet because I know many team leaders that we have scrimmed with (in IM and Amateur) who complain about the bug, but don’t end up bringing it up to the higher-ups. It’s not unbeatable, but very annoying to deal with in many situations, forcing you to deviate from the main team strategy and focus on one asshole who can only get kills by abusing a bug.

    Edit: soldier/heavy headglitches etc. don’t make them invincible to one-shot kills. Sniper is arguably the most influential class in Highlander and Prolander, which makes this bug stand out over the classic headglithces and whatever else.

  • @nyxi Your argument talking about the “counters” is… unifitting. You can argue like that about anything.
    Let me start with the “The sniper is probably in the open”, dude the sniper needs a wall or something. If he’s in the open he’s just sniping normally.
    Now let’s talk about spies can decloak, demos can spam, etc. Anything can be “countered” by just spy decloaking, demos spamming, etc. Its the same as me saying “unban machina. After all spy can come and get me. Or the demo he can spam.” There are more variables to the problem and it isn’t as simple. Also aren’t you a invite player? As a spectator I don’t see scout flanking often. I remember even B4nny complaining how useless scout is in HL too. Point is its a bit hard for scout dependant on the map.

    Like I said before I think it should get attention because sniper himself is already a powerful class. Let’s make him more powerful by forcing because of a intentional game mechanic. Totally.

  • @TheSovietOneYouHate The whole “I dont see it therefore it doesnt exist” thing you said about scouts flanking was funny. I brought up that point to tell you its not impossible to counter. Is it annoying? Yah but, its counterable by using your brain and communicating with your teammates. I wouldnt be surprised if RGL decided to ban for it but IMHO i dont think its that big of a deal tbh. Can we also ban people from crouch jumping please rgl? It makes them harder to headshot and negates my class…

  • @nyxi I didn’t mean it in a “I didn’t see it therefore it doesn’t exist”. I am just stating what I saw but I am not pushing it as a fact. It’s just a statement. I knew you were gonna grab onto that quote, I just knew it lol.

    Ok unban machina, sydney, and cozy camper. Its counterable by using your brain and communicating with your team to kill the sniper. You have the same energy in the argument like this one.

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