Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media

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  • @cayorne said in Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media:

    @cyclowns in my experience talking to people in the league, people are already pissed about rgl overreach already, and there is barely any major shit as of now, you will piss off a lot of people and those people will become actively anti-rgl

    anecdotes mean literally nothing, I don’t care if you and your buddies don’t like big bad sigafoo or whatever. as I mentioned earlier a majority of people supported more moderation in scrims and more moderation in general. obviously there would need to be surveys for a change as big as the ones mentioned in the OP and we shouldn’t just go off the word of whatever the loudest players say

  • @Papaya I’m not saying it does. My point the entire time is that this isn’t a free speech issue.

  • @cyclowns But you also have to remember that the actions refrenced in the original post would disproportionately affect the high level players in RGL, which the surveys do not take into account.

  • @cyclowns I agree with this. Let’s put it to a vote. See how many people would actually support such an overreach like policing private discords. I guarantee the amount of people supporting this would get pummeled by the amount of people voting “no”.

    Then maybe afterwards we can have a vote to relax slur restrictions. After all, they are just words.

  • @Xenagos It is though. The entire argument is over whether RGL should be able to police private interactions between players, which boils down to a free speech issue because if RGL bans people for the things they say in private, then they are violating those player’s free speech.

  • @Papaya said in Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media:

    @cyclowns But you also have to remember that the actions refrenced in the original post would disproportionately affect the high level players in RGL, which the surveys do not take into account.

    would they? open players definitely still say le funny words. besides, you can just filter the surveys by adv/challenger/invite so it doesn’t really matter

    @Kastaling said in Addressing Racism/Anti-LGBTQ Speech on Off-Platform Media:

    @cyclowns I agree with this. Let’s put it to a vote. See how many people would actually support such an overreach like policing private discords. I guarantee the amount of people supporting this would get pummeled by the amount of people voting “no”.

    sure, after discussion in the forums, which is the whole point of this thread

    Then maybe afterwards we can have a vote to relax slur restrictions. After all, they are just words.

    tf2 players be like

  • @Papaya So does free speech only apply to things said in private then? Is anything on a discord server actually private given it would have to be reported to RGL by another player already in the server?

  • @Xenagos Addressing your first point, free speech applying to private messages is specifically what we are discussing now. The argument about public/general forums is an entirely separate issue.

    Yes, things said in a private discord are private because Discord is not owned or moderated by RGL. If the discord isn’t affiliated with RGL, then in this context it would be a private discord. The very fact that the only way RGL would even know of infractions would be from reports proves that these discords are private.

  • @Papaya Well you said free speech protects you from consequences from an overbearing entity. Why would that not also apply to public speech from players?

    Just because discord is owned by a different entity doesn’t make discord servers private. The RGL forums are owned by a different entity than discord, does that make them private?

  • Reminder that there is a difference from Free Speech and Consequence Free Speech.

    Free speech means the government cant do anything about your saying slurs.

    That does not mean that there are not political, social, or cultural repercussions to your actions.

  • there should literally be no argument about free speech here. you do not have a human right to participate in a TF2 league. being barred from the league does not “silence your free speech” it just means you have to go elsewhere to voice it. Jesus Christ

  • @Mothership That is true. The “government” in this situation would be RGL.

  • if you say some stupid shit that a group of people don’t like they are under no obligation to associate with you or give you a platform for said stupid shit

  • @Papaya contrary to popular belief RGL is not a totalitarian Orwellian 1984 police state government. it’s a tf2 league

  • @Xenagos The argument about it applying to public speech is separate. This forum is specifically discussing its application to PRIVATE discord servers. As for discord servers being private, in the context of RGL they are. RGL does not own discord, erego they are private in this situation.

  • @Papaya Incorrect. The Government is literally the US Government. RGL as a private entitiy can determine on their own how they police their own platform as long as those actions are not based on sex, religion, etc that are protected from the constitution. Free speech does not apply to RGL nor will any political entity be able to do anything about it.

  • @cyclowns The league is owned and operated by the organization RGL, and in my opinion they should uphold the rights of players to have free speech in private. Whether they are an actual government or not has no bearing on this situation.

  • these are all different interpretations for what free speech means, its all subjective and up to opinion. Of course I am of the opinion that free speech should be almost limitless.

    I mean, how hard is it to just block someone or turn off your monitor if you don’t like what someone is saying? Just look the other way lmao. It takes more effort to silence someone than just ignoring them.

    Stop letting words have this power over you; grow thicker skin.

  • @Papaya And where exactly does this right to free speech come from?

    @Kastaling how hard is it to just not say slurs

  • @Mothership As per my many, many previous posts, the “free speech” being referenced here is an abstract moral concept, not a law. Whether or not RGL is legally obligated to uphold free speech on their platform has no bearing on whether or not they are morally obligated to.

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