Forums Feedback & Updates

#75
Topic created · 105 Posts · 975 Views
  • Putting aside the general abuse and how circlejerky the like and dislike feature can be, the raw advantage of having a ‘dislike’ option is to display a more accurate representation of opinions surrounding a particular idea being presented. So when, in a discussion, an idea is presented which is controversial, instead of just showing the number of people who agree with that statement(which would overwhelmingly come across as what a community thinks) it’ll show a split of opinions. A good recent example is Micahlele’s recent post on nr6s which shows 19 likes. That’s a lot of people agreeing with what he’s saying. If you show the 19 likes, but not any dislikes–it comes across as though the community unanimously agrees with it–even if there is a discussion on it 20 or 30 posts down the line. The likes/dislikes give a good idea of what people think about a specific post at a glance. Micahlele’s post may have 19 likes, but if dislikes are shown then maybe there could be 10 dislikes. 19-10 is a lot more divided than a presumed 19-0

    That’s just my take on the potential advantages at least. From a productive perspective, I don’t see the point of only having a like button but not a dislike button. I only see it as something to give people ego boosts or to try and force positivity

    Alternatively you could, like, just not have likes or dislikes

  • @vibeisveryo votes have no “utility” the same way that making a post has no “utility,” there’s no technical reason to do it. reddit’s method of pushing low-point posts into obscurity is a terrible choice for promoting discussion, which is why reddit is a joke of a platform where most users only ever see the inoffensive posts that make Very Agreeable Points (thanks for the gold kind stranger!)

    the “utility” of votes is that they allow players with opinions that have already been stated in a thread to contribute to the discussion by voicing approval (or disapproval)

  • @Constantly I don’t see a pressing need for a like button either, personally, but I would disagree that it’s exactly the same. Indicating agreement with someone includes the potential scenario of just “yes, I also have this opinion and I agree with your reasons”, which isn’t worth a separate post as it would just be duplicating something already posted. Indicating disagreement, however, by nature means that you have something different which could be said.

  • @dlphn @Constantly

    I don’t have an argument against either of the things you have brought up. Thus, I am enabling the downvote system for everyone as of now. there are some requirements and limits to the downvotes to help prevent abuse, which overall I think will solve any other issues I may have.

    https://i.imgur.com/FPm1UV5.png

  • LETS GOOOOOOOOOO

  • @Mothership said in Forums Feedback & Updates:

    @dlphn @Constantly

    I don’t have an argument against either of the things you have brought up. Thus, I am enabling the downvote system for everyone as of now. there are some requirements and limits to the downvotes to help prevent abuse, which overall I think will solve any other issues I may have.

    https://i.imgur.com/FPm1UV5.png

    Actually, looking at those parameters, that means there is an actual consequence if people abuse it, right? Because you can coordinate mass downvoting to get someone’s reputation below the required threshold for doing XYZ.

  • @scaredy-bat said in Forums Feedback & Updates:

    Actually, looking at those parameters, that means there is an actual consequence if people abuse it, right? Because you can coordinate mass downvoting to get someone’s reputation below the required threshold for doing XYZ.

    If you look at the previous posts for rep requirements to do stuff on the forums, there are some reprocussions that prevent you from editing some of your forum info if you go into the negative:

    • add “Website” to user profile
    • add “About me” to user profile
    • add “Signature” to user profile
    • add “Profile Picture” to user profile
    • add “Cover Picture” to user profile

    If you go negative, then you won’t be able to edit these anymore, however I could lower the requirements to -1000 if I have to.

  • i feel like we should be able to see whos downvoted a post just like how we can see whos upvoted

  • @Saturation You can. Click on the #

  • After an internal discussion since enabling the downvotes across the entire forum, we have decided that we will be removing upvotes and downvotes from all the forums except Off-topic and its sub-forum(s) (The Landfill).


    This decision was reached after seeing what effects enabling downvotes would have, as well as discussing our use of downvotes, upvotes, and the reputation system in general.

    The overall consensus was that it didn’t make sense to have only upvotes and not downvotes.


    Despite the ability that votes give of being able to easily give an opinion easily (downvoting low effort posts that would take too much effort to respond to), The inverse also applies where it allows users to give an opinion without without actually responding to a post that a lot of work and effort went into. One example of this was that someone could make a post and down vote it without stating why they disagreed with it, which actively hinders discussion.

    This goes along with all the normal ways that the upvote and downvote system can be abused normally (Circlejerks; Brigading; Targetted voting; etc)

    The leads back towards our Mission Statement:

    The idea with the forums is to create an open space where constructive conversations, discussions, feedback, and ideas can be shared.

    Up-votes and Down-votes simply do not encourage active discussion or conversations. Which is why we will be disabling them across the forums.


    With that in mind, I personally do not want to fully remove the reputation system from the forums. They can still be a fun system for users who care about their worthless internet points to brag about. As such we will be leaving the reputation system active in the off-topic section of the forums so users can shit-post as much as they want.


    This does not reset or remove reputation (upvotes an downvotes) on posts that have already been rated. Nor does this change anyone current reputation. This only prevents further use of the reputation system from the moment the change went into effect.

  • most people that post on the forums do so because they like the sound of their own keyboard clicking
    i dont think a voting system hinders much discussion
    upvoting and downvoting is a very interesting part of a discussion and i am always interested in whos upvoting and downvoting and what the implications of that are

  • So now, people may agree or disagree and you’ll never know because there’s no indicator AND they won’t post. That entire “internal discussion” seems to be based on the idea that users think “cool now i don’t have to post because i can click on this button!!” when I really don’t think that’s people’s line of thinking. If people want to say shit, they’ll say it. As we’ve seen already, players aren’t afraid to speak their mind if they have something they want to type.

  • To me personally the question is less “does it hinder discussion?” and more “does it bring enough added value to justify the ways in which it can be abused?” I don’t know what the forum moderators talked about, but that is my perspective as a user.

  • As long as you can see who upvoted and downvoted your post like last time, I think it should be fine. You can always call out people too who downvoted your post therefore inciting more discussion.

  • There were several forum functions locked behind reputation thresholds, including downvoting itself as originally implemented. It would have been trivial to mass-downvote somebody into not being able to use forum features. Furthermore, I don’t think that devolution into a j’accuse storm about who’s upvoting or downvoting things is what I would call a particularly valuable discussion.

    Now that we’re talking about it, I also remember previous feedback from people who responded to a suggestion to post on the forum with hesitancy about attracting ire from higher-level players. I feel that implementing a downvote system merely lowers the bar on how easy it is to create that kind of chilling effect.

    As before stated, I do think there is some minor use in having upvotes, but I’m fine with doing away with it wholesale for consistency’s sake.

  • @Mothership said in Forums Feedback & Updates:

    Despite the ability that votes give of being able to easily give an opinion easily [sic], … The inverse also applies where it allows users to give an opinion without without actually responding to a post that a lot of work and effort went into. One example of this was that someone could make a post and down vote it without stating why they disagreed with it, which actively hinders discussion.

    The idea with the forums is to create an open space where constructive conversations, discussions, feedback, and ideas can be shared.

    when users respond negatively to high effort posts they disagree with, they typically do not (and should not be expected to) make their own responses high effort

    link: the ruins of a thread of users “actually responding” to a high effort post they disagree with

  • @dlphn Would it have been better for her post to be downvoted into oblivion by the same lot?

    I guess this is as good a place as any to boost @RaosCometh 's suggestion about collapsing deleted posts so they don’t continue wasting so much undeserved screenspace.

  • @dlphn said in Forums Feedback & Updates:

    when users respond negatively to high effort posts they disagree with, they typically do not (and should not be expected to) make their own responses high effort

    link: the ruins of a thread of users “actually responding” to a high effort post they disagree with

    I am not expecting users to write alto essays in response to alto essays, however I do not see how I can’t reasonably expect people to respond to things appropriately. That thread is not a good example of what you are suggesting as it was literally nothing but spam and “Too Long, didnt read” meme images.

  • @Mothership if I could downvote this I would

  • @scaredy-bat said in Forums Feedback & Updates:

    There were several forum functions locked behind reputation thresholds, including downvoting itself as originally implemented. It would have been trivial to mass-downvote somebody into not being able to use forum features. Furthermore, I don’t think that devolution into a j’accuse storm about who’s upvoting or downvoting things is what I would call a particularly valuable discussion.

    i really dont think intentional “brigading” would happen much, and anyway they can just remove the ability for downvotes to take away from rep
    and certainly in no way does it make sense to get rid of upvotes, as that just means if people agree with someone they have to just post"i agree!" which is just a waste of everyones time to read

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