CP_STEEL_REFRESH Discussion & Feedback thread.

#1800
Topic created · 34 Posts · 364 Views
  • I can see where harris0n is coming from in his changes, I think they probably make the map a little better (though we’ll see how much meds like getting dropped from new angles from snipers due to the fixed clipping on things), but I personally feel that I was a bit misled by the survey.

    I can’t find the exact wording (honestly I don’t remember how I voted) for the cp_steel refresh question, but I remember it being very much along the lines of “no gameplay changes, only small quality of life things.”

    The patchnote for the removal of the default B sniper angle:

    Removed the pixel sniper angle through the window

    Maybe I’m a bit dumb, but considering the changelog also lists removing little angles I’d never even heard of, like this one at wishbone, “Prevented shooting through the small hole in the window”, I thought maybe it was some little pixel peek through the window on the sniper perch overlooking B.

    Removing the meta sniper angle changes pushing B almost completely, it’s the default spot and teams have whole zany strategies devoted to getting the sniper off that angle, and it’s arguably the only angle in competitive where it isn’t a throw to not run the vanilla sniper rifle; I thought it made for an interesting dynamic that is now gone (though I’m obviously biased as a sniper main).

    alt text

    Obviously, people should try to know what they’re getting into before voting for it, I think that’s a takeaway here, but I think the way the survey presented the question (at least how I remember it), it came across as to me as “oh well if it’s just small little things here and there, I trust that it’s just changing clipping and stuff, no biggie.” I think I might’ve even voted no lol

    I don’t remember what the discussions were had (if there even were any) about the map in the HL staff channels when I was a staff member, though I almost certainly wouldn’t share staff discussions like that publicly. But enough rambling, I think that:

    1. Either HL staff (myself included) didn’t take a close look enough at the map before putting out the poll

    OR

    2. The question on the poll was worded fucking terribly, assuming I remembered it correctly

    Regardless, it seems I’m not the only one who was misled by the question as I remember it.

    It would be SOOOOO much easier to have this discussion if all poll results were released publicly, then I wouldn’t have to spend half an hour typing up rants about hypothetical poll questions, rather than keeping them hidden from the public. You don’t have to write an exa-style article, just take some screenshots or post a link.

  • nobody asked for the window angle to be removed. it’s a strong angle, yes, but it has always been a feature that teams learn to play around.

    regardless of if you think the angle is fair or not, this is a MAJOR gameplay change and should NOT be included in a version that is supposed to JUST be quality of life fixes and better clipping.

  • there is counterplay to the window angle by hugging the right side of the spawn door and peeking slowly to the window angle at the beginning of round.

    the angle isn’t oppressive enough to warrant a removal if the argument is to improve QoL on steel

  • I can appreciate the intention and your dedication towards map improvement, but anything that changes gameplay shouldn’t be passed off so lightly and tossed right into the season. There is a difference between the visual feel and “creator’s vision” of the map (it was added in 2008 and last updated in 2013; the map should be considered out of the original creator’s hands) and its functional gameplay topology. Removing a sightline that doesn’t feel like it should be there might be a small fix in terms of aesthetic or QoL, but it could change the way the point or the whole map is played. For instance, if that sightline is no longer viable then teams might position completely differently, placing emphasis on different points altogether.

    That soldier spot above B has been considered a legitimate gameplay option for years. Removing it eliminates that gameplay option entirely, reducing the map to something else. Severing a gameplay option is probably never isolated and will change the weights of other gameplay options. Spots like these either exist or they don’t and the fact that it might be an unintended pixel walk doesn’t change its existence as a gameplay option. If the goal is QoL, you could easily add some other prop up there to address it while also attempting to keep it functionally the same. If the goal is larger than this, then it should be dealt with as a gameplay changing update and not passed off as if it were a set of nonfunctional changes as it seems to have been implied. Maybe they are justified improvements, but if so then I think there should be more talk before it’s implemented.


    I’d like to add that I think adding another instance of separation from the vanilla game by creating a new map file for cp_steel is probably not the way to go, but this is besides the point and I’m sure many would disagree with me.

  • @shotaway said in CP_STEEL_REFRESH Discussion & Feedback thread.:

    That soldier spot above B has been considered a legitimate gameplay option for years. Removing it eliminates that gameplay option entirely, reducing the map to something else. Severing a gameplay option is probably never isolated and will change the weights of other gameplay options. Spots like these either exist or they don’t and the fact that it might be an unintended pixel walk doesn’t change its existence as a gameplay option. If the goal is QoL, you could easily add some other prop up there to address it while also attempting to keep it functionally the same. If the goal is larger than this, then it should be dealt with as a gameplay changing update and not passed off as if it were a set of nonfunctional changes as it seems to have been implied. Maybe they are justified improvements, but if so then I think there should be more talk before it’s implemented.

    I assume you’re talking about the spot right above the B entrance, the spot is still there just not at the usual place players know of, see album - https://imgur.com/a/rNOAfi7
    Reasoning for this was clean up and improvement of clipbrushes to ensure better movement around the area while still keeping the hiding spot players are used to use.

  • anyone who’s arguing against the removal of the crack shot on the B needs to lose their human rights immediately

    the amount of pearl-clutching in this thread my god

  • It’s the medic mains vs the sniper mains who will win

  • @Alto it’s one thing to say it should be removed and another thing to remove it while claiming there were no gameplay changes

  • @shotaway on a philosophical level sure it’s dishonest to an extent but on a practical level it’s like your mechanic throwing in a free oil change after you paid him for a tune up, realistically speaking there should be no complaints

  • alto stop talking you are wrong

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