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  • @dlphn said in Matchpoints on king of the hill HL ruleset:

    seems like nothing would change but it seems weird to me that the third round is worth less points than the first two, i feel like they should have equal point values. maybe .4 per round? idk

    The third round is not worth less than the first two, all the rounds won have diminishing returns. You get .6 for the first round, .4 for the second, and then .29 for the third.

    This is because we are taking the loser rounds won and dividing by the total rounds played. For koth, the winner will always have 4 rounds won, so you are basically doing a fun line graph of y=3x/(4+x). As you win more rounds, the number you are dividing by also increases.
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    posted in General
  • @calo said in Matchpoints on king of the hill HL ruleset:

    @Mothership ill give you a hat if you run stats on this data for playoffs seeding in invite seasons 1-9

    Doing that would not necessarily help since the way the league ranks teams might of changed multiple times since season 1.

    Current system:

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    This is the official math on how points are given out. to break this into a formula, we would say this:

    (Loser Points)    L=x/(y-1)
    (Winner Points)   W=3-L

    So if we were to plug in the Koth info, we would get this: (Only showing the loser points math as I hope we can all do W=3-L on our own.)

    Score |  MP          | Math
     4-0    3-0             0=0/(4-1)         
     4-1    2.66-.33      1/3=1/(4-1)
     4-2    2.33-.66      2/3=2/(4-1)
     4-3    2-1             1=3/(4-1)

    As you can see, the winning team’s rounds for koth is always four, so the math for the original formula is simplified to [Loser score]/3 or, Rounds won times 0.33

    Lets also test this with Payload.

    Score |  MP | Math
     2-0    3-0   0=0/(2-1)         
     2-1    2-1   1=1/(2-1)

    So we can simply the Payload formula to (Loser score/1) or even more simply Loser MP = Loser Score.

    Using a Different Formula:

    Now to to make the koth 4-2 be the same match points as payload 2-1 would require us changing the formula completely. This is ignoring if the community agrees that 4-2 on koth is the same as 2-1 on payload.

    IDK what math you are using to dist. in your doodle. But the only way to get a flat distribution like what you are wanting is by dist the final points based off if the losing team got 1/3 of the total rounds in the game. Leading to this formula:

    Loser MP = 3(Loser rounds won)/(Total rounds played)

    Basically, you want to gain one (1) MP off winning one third (1/3) of the total rounds played.

    Score |  MP     | Math
     4-0     3-0        0=3(0/4)
     4-1   2.4-.6     3/5=3(1/5)
     4-2     2-1        1=3(2/6)
     4-3  1.71-1.29   9/7=3(3/7)
     2-0     3-0         0=3(0/2)
     2-1     2-1         1=3(1/3)

    This has the fun side-effect of having proportionally decreasing MP gained as you win more rounds as the losing team.

    R:    MP:    Change:    Diff:
    0     0      +0         +0
    1     0.6    +0.6       +0.6
    2     1      +0.4       -0.2
    3     1.29   +0.29      -0.11

    Applying the New Formula to Season 10:

    Current league standings are as such:
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    Rank    Team            Pts
    1       Hood           11.34
    2       WJQ308          9.33
    3       FroggieLand	9
    4	3600	        9
    5	Yeye	        5.33
    6	somebody help   3
    7	Amigos    	1
    8	Train Station	0

    This would change to:

    Rank    Team            Pts
    1       Hood           11
    2       WJQ308          9.4
    3       FroggieLand	9
    4	3600	        9
    5	Yeye	        5.31
    6	somebody help   3
    7	Amigos    	1.29
    8	Train Station	0

    Basically nothing for this current season would change.

    Applying the New Formula to Season 9:

    Lets try this again with last season however just for shits and giggles.
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    Rank    Team                Pts
    1       Don't Press Tab     20.34
    2       Man Crush Monday    13.67
    3       Froggie Land	    12.68
    4	RunItBack            9.34
    5	Yatch Club           9.34
    6	somebody help        8.66
    7	Yeye                 6.32
    8	Goose Lagoon	     3.65

    The new formula would change to This:

    Rank    Team                Pts
    1       Don't Press Tab     20
    2       Man Crush Monday    13.4
    3       Froggie Land	    12
    4	RunItBack            9 
    5	Yatch Club           9  
    6	somebody help        9
    7	Yeye                 7
    8	Goose Lagoon	     4.6

    The change in this case is that RunItBack, Yacht Club, and Somebody Help would all now have the same MP, but all with different records.

    In the case of last season, this would not result in any change in the regular season rankings, and thus would not affect playoffs. THIS TIME!

    What about a different formula?

    The issue resolves around the fact that the current system rewards 1 match point to the winner of the match and then divides the rest of the points based off rounds.

    If you make koth 4-2 = 2-1 in MP, then 4-3 would have to give more than 1 MP to the losing team. This means you cannot award extra points to the winning team because there would not be enough points to give away to make 4-2 = 2-1 in MP.

    This means that my formula is the best (that I could think of at 2am) alternative that we could use. HOWEVER:

    Final Conclusion

    One thing everyone should keep in mind is that HL does rankings on MP and not win/loss. This means that it is completely possible for a team to rank higher than another team while having a worse Win/Loss record. And this formula, would increase the amount of points a losing team gains via rounds taken, and thus exponentially increases the chance of this happening.

    It honestly comes down to if we think that one payload round is equal to two koth rounds (currently its equal to three). Which I personally do not as it is much easier to take 2 koth rounds than it is to take a full payload/stopwatch round.


    posted in General
  • Guys, please don’t make me have to moderate a covid thread.

    posted in General
  • @Constantly I don’t know if there is room for something like that. I think just copy pasting the 6’s payment structure is what is best if we want to take HL seriously.

    posted in RGL News & Updates
  • I am just interested in hearing why Challenger was removed.

    @WiLLmaTiC said in Highlander Season 9 Survey Results:

    70% of players from IM to Invite are interested in having their division become a paid division and playing for a prize pool. Be on the lookout in 2022 for more info regarding this!

    This is something I am genuinely excited for.

    It is nice to know that my favorite map poll I did Here aligns really well with the league poll results. It also matches the changes from when I ran it last time as well.

    posted in RGL News & Updates
  • Highlander Season 9 Survey Results

    This article was delayed due to family matters and illness. I apologize for the delay.

    Skill Range and Team Count

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    Skill range and team count for each division was in a good spot last season.

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    Newcomer through IM felt the skill range was slightly too big, however this is to be expected lower level teams tend to grow at different rates.

    Admins and Sandbagging

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    Admin interactions were positive and when needed admins were east to get a hold of. Players also felt like, for the most part, decisions of the admin team were reasonable.

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    Our anti-sandbagging policies were generally effective, however some players felt we were too lax on restrictions. The divisions where players felt we were too lax on restrictions were Newcomer, Amateur, and Main. We will look into methods of improving out sandbagging measures in these divisions.

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    Players currently don’t want to play more than 1 map per week, so this suggestion will be but on the backburner. There is discussion to possibly had about when the extra match may happen and if that would change opinions of this, but that wont be for sometime.

    Map Results

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    Vigil was the map with the highest “Very Enjoyable” votes out of the Season 9 maps. A whopping 81% of players found the map enjoyable. This is a 10% increase compared to last season with a 71% enjoyment vote.

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    Ashville was voted the most enjoyable Season 9 map, barely beating out Vigil with 82% of players enjoying the map. Compared to Vigil, Ashville had a small 4% bump in player enjoyment compared to last season.

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    Swiftwater had a slight increase in enjoyability at 63%, a 3% increase from last season.

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    Nothing too notable with Product with it’s 67% enjoyment rating. This is a 5% decrease compared to last season.

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    Again, nothing too notable with Upward. With an enjoyment rating of 72%, it had a slight decrease of enjoyment of 6% compared to last season.

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    The new Cascade did not fare well in it’s first season in rotation, with a 42% enjoyment rating. Coincidentally, this is the same enjoyment rating Lakeside received last season.

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    Steel is surprisingly the 3rd highest rated map out of the Season 9 maps, with a 74% enjoyment rating. This is an 8% increase from last season.

    Some interesting Tidbits

    As you decreased in divisions, new Cascade’s enjoyment rating steadily rose

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    Interestingly, although Invite players have called for Upward and Product’s removal from the map pool, they are still voted very favorably.


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    Players are interested in having a cup focused on whitelist changes. Be on the lookout for a possible poll on which weapons should be tested to be unbanned.

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    Invite players REALLY do not want to move to “LAN” style playoff structure, with all matches being played over 1 weekend.

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    A close vote that resulted in players wanting to keep the current playoff structure.

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    70% of players from IM to Invite are interested in having their division become a paid division and playing for a prize pool. Be on the lookout in 2022 for more info regarding this!

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    Since Challenger was removed it is impossible make it either Round Robin or Swiss, however should it have stuck around it would have been Round Robin like previous seasons.

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    With the removal of Challenger, players voted to have Advanced be a Round Robin format, so why isn’t it? With the survey results in hand, the admin team had a discussion about which format to use. With removing Challenger, we ran into some issues with team placements. Removing Challenger essentially shifts teams down a division and has the potential to create unfair player restrictions and unbalanced divisions.

    Assuming 6 out of the 8 Challenger teams live or are remade to be similar in skill as the dead teams, this would leave 2 spots open for teams from the old Advanced. One of those spots would be taken by the Main winners from last season, and the other possibly taken by the Advanced winners from last season. This would place every team from the 2nd place Advanced team and below into Main. This would lead to one of 2 scenarios: the first being we leave the high Advanced teams unrestricted, breaking our own sandbagging rules, and letting them completely roll the division. The second scenario being we follow our sandbagging rules and place unfair restrictions on them because they are in playing in a lower division not of their own accord. There is a high chance multiple teams would die due these restrictions.

    With Advanced being a 12 team swiss this issue is solved. You take all the would-be Challenger teams and place them into Advanced, and you take the top Advanced teams from last season and keep them in advanced. The lower Advanced teams then get moved down to Main, increasing the skill range of the division.

    Another minor issue that we ran into was the possibly of an invite off class team happening. While we don’t mind invite off class teams happening, they are typically seen as “less serious” than teams with players of the appropriate skill on their mains. With Advanced at 8 teams, this would lead to either a less serious team taking the space of a team that wants to play seriously and improve, or the invite off class team would have been placed in Main, where we typically restrict invite players to only medic.

    During the discussion, the majority rule in favor of a 12 team Advanced. In addition to this, there were admins that felt Round Robin would be better, but with Challenger being removed 12 team Swiss would be the better option.

    Ok, but why is it 14 now?

    As I was out of town with family issues on September 17th when this decision was made, I was unable to provide my input on this situation. I reached out to the Advanced Admin @Joey-Lemons for a comment:

    “Regarding 14 team advanced, there were a few reasons for that being the direction we ended up going in. With the deletion of challenger, it created some obstacles for team placement that we would end up having to make compromises for one way or another. For example, with the division above main being removed or made smaller depending on how you look at it, moving up the main winners became a problem. We want to reward teams for winning their div with a moveup, however this put them in above other teams we would have personally chosen based on skill alone, complicating the placements. Another contributor to this was legacy teams returning in both invite and advanced that belonged in those divs, forcing other teams further down in seeding than they may have been in season 9. So again, there were teams that had solid performances in advanced of season 9 that we had to debate between placing in main or advanced this season. With what we had to work with, we believed the expansion to 14 teams was the cleanest solution to avoid being unfair to teams with achievements from the previous season. In hindsight we are aware that this change still ended up upsetting a good chunk of players and we will absolutely take this into account for our decision making going forward and for next season. We hope this shed some light on why we chose to expand from advanced 12 to 14 teams this season.”

    We hope this sheds some light on the decisions to make Advanced a 14 team Swiss.

    Original article:

    posted in RGL News & Updates
  • You are not trying to discuss the mission statement of RGL, you are trying to convince yourself and others that because Antlers was a Caster/Producer, he should not be held to the same standard as everyone else in this community.

    If you want to have a discussion on it’s mission, then perhaps you should actually post what you think is wrong with the mission, or what needs to change instead of:

    @Deltamarket said in Thank You Letter to the RGL Admin Team:

    The clear intent was satire aimed at the entire point of RGL.**

    If you want to have a discussion on something, make actual points with backing evidence instead of baseless comments.

    posted in General
  • We are dropping support for the Invite 6’s STVs. The secondary page ( which contains the 6’s demos will be officially retired two weeks from today (10-16-2021).

    posted in Community Projects
  • @Deltamarket said in Thank You Letter to the RGL Admin Team:

    Again is RGL going to be a group that legislates useless rules until the bitter sweet end, or will it reorient itself to benefiting the community? I can’t make that choice, but you can.

    Your ignorance to why these rules exist do not excuse your actions. Perhaps you should educate yourself a bit a spend some time thinking about the reasoning behind why these rules exist.

    RGL Anti-Cheat Updates from 3/20/2020

    Tl;DR: Random POV checks are a Anti-cheat issue and thus this rule directly correlates to helping stop cheating.

    @Deltamarket said in Thank You Letter to the RGL Admin Team:

    I suppose you again misunderstood the point of the thread. I’m not arguing the rules nor am I arguing he should be unbanned under how things are currently done.

    The clear intent was satire aimed at the entire point of RGL. To anyone who read that and thought “I’ll write about why you should be able to record a demo” you just misread the entire thing please try again :).

    Its fairly obvious this is just a rgl-hate circlejerk thread. However this is not the TFTV forums, and we actually require discussion on these forums.

    posted in General
  • @Deltamarket

    The rules are very specific and clear. [1008.5] - POV and STV Demos

    This includes the penalties for doing so:
    alt text

    You are asking for discretion where there is none to give. Perhaps if you provide an actual valid reason why your buddy should have the ability to not have to follow the rules like everyone else, that would help your cause.

    posted in General