RGL Contributors

@Grynn said in Bring back 5cp to hl:

@Mothership

I think the problems you and Exa listed aren’t necessarily problems with the map/game mode, but issues with the class. Half of what you said for engie gameplay on those maps were just sitting on sniper and wrangling, which is what engineer does on every other map anyways. But just because that’s what the “”meta”” is, doesn’t mean there’s more room for variability. On product you have little room for variability. That’s not the case when it comes to 5cp maps, and what I mean by a “breath of fresh air” is that there’s room for trying out more wacky strategies that will actually breed success rather than being forced to play the meta either because of social pressure or because there’s literally no other way to play the map (product concrete wrangler).

I don’t agree with this. What I listed out on all those maps were not the meta strategies, but the only strategies you could really do. Yeah, you could try funny level 3 strats, but its just the same as minis but with less metal. Yeah you could do Tele strats, but hiding the same teleporter on gullywash 2nd only works so many times, and that is ignoring the fact that doing so prevents your team from having teles at all (assuming they would even be able to use them in the first place).

You are extremely limited in what you can do as an engineer on any 5cp map since you are too slow and squishy, you are 100% reliant on the rest of your team to do anything. Any attempt to get behind will get you caught out and killed most of the time, and even if you get lucky and get a trade, it is not worth it 90% of the time since the respawn timers are not significantly different for either team. And because you are slow, even if you have faster spawns, you will still most likely get back to the front lines after the person you traded with.

Meanwhile I can name a bunch of things you could do differently on product. When I played, I mostly played around the combo and not the flank. Wrangling from pocket and denying that whole space so our demo can watch forward without getting rushed. You could also be a dumbass and just walk forward with the panic attack like J-man. At least on koth, any trades you make while you don’t have the point is a good trade.

Yeah, those issues are inherent because of engineer and not the gamemode, but 5cp locks you into those roles in a way that neither koth nor payload will.

My only successful attempt to try something “Wacky & Fun” was running perma level 2s and fj, annoying yipyapper who said it was a terrible idea.

@Velvet I am pretty sure you just need to read through those channels and react to something.

@cayorne said in Bring back 5cp to hl:

@Mothership very excited for the next map cup featuring synthetic, ramjam, and ashville_rc3a (has new lights in lobby)

can we actually try something for once please thanks

metas change, players change, strategies change, can we just actually use it for something for once.

I am not sure why you are saying that to me, I 100% agree with you.

My issue is that it is pointless to try and see if 5cp works if we already know the answer to that. (The answer is no)

are you getting an error or some other issue? To gain access to the Discord you must have a linked account. Which everyone should be able to do unless you are running into a site issue. The discord admins can alternatively try and help get you situated.

@lucki There is a reason I have not mained engineer since season 7

@Grynn said in Bring back 5cp to hl:

Speaking from an engineer perspective, 5cp is a breath of fresh air. It allows for a lot of variability in play which is great for one of the most boring classes in the game.

you do not have a lot of variability, just that you are more flexible because you being a hard support class are able to support your team in multiple chokes. However you are still a slow squishy class and can not do anything on your own.

Most my time on 5cp was spent sitting around waiting for my or the opposing team to do something. The best advice I gave to my mentees was to treat it like a top down strategy game. Pay attention to what is happening on the map, and rotate and respond accordingly.

This is how every map went.

cp_gullywash.

• Mid you sit at big door wrangling anyone off the point while you babysit your sniper.
• 2nd you sit at big door with your scout and solly, just hard wrangling anyone that peaks.
• On last you sit on the right side with a level 3 waiting for the uber exchange.

cp_process

• Mid you sit at choke with a wrangled mini while babysitting your sniper and medic.
• 2nd: The big debate is if you should watch sewers with your solly to prevent their sniper from being able to peak your whole 2nd, or if you have to rotate to IT because their solly is trying to sneak behind so he can hot drop your medic.
• Last you build a level 3.

cp_sunshine

• Mid. Wrangler at choke. hope you don’t get bombed by the flank solly.
• 2nd. hardcore defensive mini strats!
• last. same but with level 3s.

cp_vanguard

• Ditto

cp_glassworks

• I have a very distinct memory of sitting on a dispenser on last for 10 minutes while watching our demo spawn, die and then respawn over and over again bored out of my mind. I am pretty sure I just alt tabbed at some point to read manga until comms said they were finally pushing in.

edit:
If you are bored, just go watch this 5cp POV video of exa_ to get a taste of engineer on 5cp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOCfgaFpkA0

---

How bout everyone play some 5cp in your pug groups first instead of trying to force it into a map cup with very limited slots.

@Bliztank Hard to have a forum war when its such a laughable idea.

EDIT: I figured that if I am going to respond to the thread, I might as well actually respond to the thread.

The issues with 5cp are different for both sixes and HL. Sixes was built upon 5cp as it’s core gamemode and the issues it has with stalemates in my opinion are fundamentally different.

Stalemates in sixes mostly revolves around the player limits and how essential each of those players are. Hence why having a boring SvS or single sack waves are the norm. You are only ever able to lose one person, if you lose two, you lose the point. Hence why the new b4nny config exists, the timer exists as a means to force teams to make a move and not sit around waiting for the perfect advantage that you would lose the game/round to otherwise.

Highlander’s stalemates are induced not from teams lack of a willingness to push, but rather the team compositions themselves. You run a perma engineer, heavy, pyro, and sniper, all are great at denying space, angles, and pushes all in one go. This significantly slows the game down and, unlike with sixes, you could lose 1/3 of your team and still be able to hold the point. 1/3 of your team could just be your scout, spy, heavy and you are still going to be able to hold gullywash mid no problem at all.

To conclude, I think the b4nny config would help, but not enough to actually solve the issues with 5cp and HL. I would much rather we throw maps into the map cup that have active devs and have an actual chance of being played.

@Lance It takes time for the steam API to make these changes. I would give it up to 24 hours before wondering what is wrong, especially if you do have all the correct settings on steam.