How is crouch peeking still not addressed?

#937
Topic created · 72 Posts · 1026 Views
  • @TheSovietOneYouHate like pajaro said its rare for a sniper to be sitting in a crouch peek position and have a constant buff. When a sniper is in a spot like that they are pretty immobile and probably in the open. Soldiers can bomb, spies can decloak, demos can spam, snipers can rotate and peek from different angles, scouts can flank or the entire team can just fight from somewhere thats not in his sightline. Theres so many ways to counter it, its not impossible and id even say that if a team cant properly pressure an immobile, crouched sniper out of position without dying to him then they have more important things to worry about than the sniper and how he peeked.

  • Don’t only look at this 1 angle. It’s abusable wherever there’s a right wall. Upward 3rd offense (house), Upward last defense sitting on bridge, and so forth.

    It’s not just this one instance but can be extrapolated to others.

    It was very rampantly abused in EU/ETF2L, hence why it’s banned.

    Imo, this will become something very similar to how machina wasn’t banned in ugc forever. It caught traction over 1-2 seasons and was instantly banned. Sure it’s different, weapon vs hitbox manipulation, but somewhat the same.

    Edit:
    I don’t have a stance whether or not it should be banned, but cherry picking on this one angle in regards to buff status (just bodyshot him 4head) is disingenuous.

  • @pajaro Ah yes. The classic “just aim better dumbass” response. Not everyone can instantly become an invite player, but this peek bug allows a trash sniper to dominate in lower divs because of their ability to live in every single sniper duel if they are overhealed, which they always are. Snipers who abuse this know that their only vulnerability in a SvS is bodyshots, so no shit they will ask for an overheal before doing the bug.

    1. “the other team’s sniper is almost never going to be fully buffed doing this peek”. Where are you even getting this information from? I can come up with 2 spots off the top of my head just on viaduct, a small koth map, where the sniper can abuse this glitch and still be in my beam’s range. House entrance and top of cliff (where the wall is to his right), so you’re simply wrong there.

    2. “it’s not unfair enough that it will likely change the outcome of a game and it’s beatable”. You can say that anything is beatable with your logic then. If a sniper found a glitch that gives him 1000 hp, just send a soldier, demo, scout, sniper, and spy at them. Simple counter right? On top of that, if this is ‘part of the game’ like you like to call it, get rid of weapon bans in RGL. They are part of the game as well, aren’t they?

    3. “idk where you’re getting the ‘[1 pixel argument]’ from”. I was talking about the other sniper’s head in that sentence. There is almost literally 1 pixel of their head’s hitbox that is sticking out for you to be able to headshot them. It’s somewhere between the neck and the jaw. This clip shows it better: https://clips.twitch.tv/NurturingGrotesqueTigerNinjaGrumpy

    4. “source engine has peeker’s advantage”. You might have to redo your research on source engine then…at least in this case: https://clips.twitch.tv/SmellyIcyCakeHeyGirl

  • @QueeQuey I understand what you mean. I just want to make it clear that I never said that there are no counters to this; I simply wanted to know why this has not been addressed yet because I know many team leaders that we have scrimmed with (in IM and Amateur) who complain about the bug, but don’t end up bringing it up to the higher-ups. It’s not unbeatable, but very annoying to deal with in many situations, forcing you to deviate from the main team strategy and focus on one asshole who can only get kills by abusing a bug.

    Edit: soldier/heavy headglitches etc. don’t make them invincible to one-shot kills. Sniper is arguably the most influential class in Highlander and Prolander, which makes this bug stand out over the classic headglithces and whatever else.

  • @nyxi Your argument talking about the “counters” is… unifitting. You can argue like that about anything.
    Let me start with the “The sniper is probably in the open”, dude the sniper needs a wall or something. If he’s in the open he’s just sniping normally.
    Now let’s talk about spies can decloak, demos can spam, etc. Anything can be “countered” by just spy decloaking, demos spamming, etc. Its the same as me saying “unban machina. After all spy can come and get me. Or the demo he can spam.” There are more variables to the problem and it isn’t as simple. Also aren’t you a invite player? As a spectator I don’t see scout flanking often. I remember even B4nny complaining how useless scout is in HL too. Point is its a bit hard for scout dependant on the map.

    Like I said before I think it should get attention because sniper himself is already a powerful class. Let’s make him more powerful by forcing because of a intentional game mechanic. Totally.

  • @TheSovietOneYouHate The whole “I dont see it therefore it doesnt exist” thing you said about scouts flanking was funny. I brought up that point to tell you its not impossible to counter. Is it annoying? Yah but, its counterable by using your brain and communicating with your teammates. I wouldnt be surprised if RGL decided to ban for it but IMHO i dont think its that big of a deal tbh. Can we also ban people from crouch jumping please rgl? It makes them harder to headshot and negates my class…

  • @nyxi I didn’t mean it in a “I didn’t see it therefore it doesn’t exist”. I am just stating what I saw but I am not pushing it as a fact. It’s just a statement. I knew you were gonna grab onto that quote, I just knew it lol.

    Ok unban machina, sydney, and cozy camper. Its counterable by using your brain and communicating with your team to kill the sniper. You have the same energy in the argument like this one.

  • The machina is the only thing you listed thats actually banned and its banned because its a literal direct upgrade to the stock sniper rifle in almost everyway, oh and its doesnt require you to crouch next to a wall and sit still to be broken

  • @nyxi You sure about that? Played prolander recently literally everything was banned for sniper except for stock things. Cozy camper, machina, jarate, sydney, etc. Referencing from that.

    If so damn didn’t know that HL allowed cozy camper, nice

    Edit: Ye was wrong on the ban, whoops! Prolander is kinda like HL so I assumed the bans extend there.

  • We should just allow the machina so this crouch peeking issue stops existing :))

  • pro tip, shoot them in the high shoulder and you might clip their head hitbox, otherwise just peek another angle

    this would be super hard to enforce so i dont see it changing

  • getting aeon peeked in an official is a coming of age moment for the open players that should not be banned

  • @ynh not wrong

  • @cayorne I know that one personally. Kinda RNG on that one dependant on how well they did it. I have no idea if I am honest how it is hard to enforce? People in ETF2L said the same thing. I’m sorry but I don’t think any sniper in their mother crouch snipes unless he can’t see something. Standing still too unless they are trying to do the wall thing.

  • @TheSovietOneYouHate people crouch to make themselves smaller on a number of points without the glitch in mind, also for the most part its not really that annoying once you learn to rotate properly and know what fights to take and what not to take.

    also im sure some people arent even aware that theyre doing it, theyre just trying to hide around a wall. its a part of the game, its not that bad once you take 4 steps to the left or just shoot someone else.

    also there are things way more annoying than aeon peeks on sniper.

  • @BoiSlipp said in How is crouch peeking still not addressed?:

    1. “source engine has peeker’s advantage”. You might have to redo your research on source engine then…at least in this case: https://clips.twitch.tv/SmellyIcyCakeHeyGirl

    LMFAO you literally have no idea what peeker’s advantage is. this is not what i am referring to. if you know that there is a sniper doing this, you can get an angle that lets you shoot their body without them being able to see you. just peek far behind a wall and you will be able to see the side of their model before they can see any of you. it also refers to the fact that when you move to peek, your view updates before your player model updates on the server.

  • If snipers are wasting their time with crouch peeking to win svs duels there is an exceptionally high chance their map presence is low and they aren’t helping their team by pressuring important sightlines.

    Punish it with your non-sniper classes via tactical application of the W key. Additionally, your own sniper can shoot other things until their sniper actually plays the game. Taking svs fights isn’t mandatory if the other sniper is being useless.

  • Why is it that the 6s players that don’t snipe in hl have the best takes on this? Makes you wonder.

  • This issue really is not a huge deal in invite highlander, every sniper I have ever played against that did this was very killable, except maybe in the sightline from cp steel E spawn into wishbone/banana (in which they got stabbed for being immobile watching one angle my team wasn’t even pushing from). I can not speak for lower divisions, but experiencing this in invite has just been asking my soldier/spy/demoman/pyro with detonator/scout to help me deal with it.

    It requires anyone on your team to do 35 damage on top of a bodyshot in quick succession, and if I avoid that one corner angle I can shoot their entire team without having to worry about getting counter sniped. I have yet to experience a crouch bug angle that engulfs the entire map, voiding all rotation (if there are, please show me). The rest of your team can then push the sniper from various angles, dislodging him as nabla previously mentioned above.

    Now don’t get me wrong, it’s VERY lame and annoying to play against but it’s not the end all be all of a situation. For example, if their sniper is on offense and doing that to you on upward 3rd from house/lower main, just stop taking that fight, you can opt to just shoot cart or hold the corner from further back, which still allows you to shoot a combo pushing up the hill or to shoot players pushing catwalk.

    For what it’s worth, no top sniper that I have played in 7s or highlander relies on this to win, because it is just svs cheese that can be avoided or countered.

    Keep in mind this can be done entirely accidentally if you want to crouch peek an angle from the right side and end up too close to the wall. Would you ban snipers from peeking an angle too close to the wall to fix this? What about snipers and other classes sitting inside of sentry guns and dispensers? It also can be done from the left side too, just a lot harder and entirely dependent on how the map geometry works.

    Clips from space ghost coffee’s stream a while ago showcasing the bug for those that don’t know:

    https://clips.twitch.tv/SmellyIcyCakeHeyGirl

    https://clips.twitch.tv/PoorThoughtfulRaccoonArsonNoSexy

    https://clips.twitch.tv/NurturingGrotesqueTigerNinjaGrumpy

  • @Fallen-Gourd Good answer, thanks.

Log in to reply