Harassment in the RGL Community

#1120
Topic created · 97 Posts · 1143 Views
  • Rona, let me preface by saying I’ve had relatively little in-game interaction with you. However, that experience, combined with other logs and jokes made at your expense (and the stories I’ve heard), have led me to have a very negative view of you. For what it’s worth, I’m sorry for any part I might have played in propagating that perception to people who had never met you.

    That being said, I respect your decision in writing this, and your decision to leave. No person should have to go through the kind of shit you did, especially when it led to IRL stuff, and I’m glad you decided to say something about it. I wish you luck.

  • @Res
    Thank you.

    I addressed my side of it above.

  • after reading almost everything posted here, I’m starting to think that people here just don’t know that the “block” button exists. In RGL you really don’t have to communicate or associate with people you don’t want to, and if you do it’s always in a protected format, like matches or scrims even (and those are optional against those people).

    also y’all should really do a better job managing your online presence, stuff that they taught to us in like 3rd grade about the internet. I keep my online alias separate from my real life stuff as much as I can. Of course I don’t post on social media at all, but if you do, there are clear risks associated with it, so you can’t entirely blame others. and just to be clear this isn’t victim blaming. there’s a difference between telling people to take preventative measures because people can be shitty and full-on victim-blaming.

    also I’ve never met you before rona but sorry if you did get body shamed, I’ve dealt with that a lot IRL and its not very good, my sympathies.

  • @Kastaling said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    after reading almost everything posted here, I’m starting to think that people here just don’t know that the “block” button exists. In RGL you really don’t have to communicate or associate with people you don’t want to, and if you do it’s always in a protected format, like matches or scrims even (and those are optional against those people).

    Really curious how the block button would solve someone making an entire video about you that involves body shaming.

    also y’all should really do a better job managing your online presence, stuff that they taught to us in like 3rd grade about the internet. I keep my online alias separate from my real life stuff as much as I can. Of course I don’t post on social media at all, but if you do, there are clear risks associated with it, so you can’t entirely blame others. and just to be clear this isn’t victim blaming. there’s a difference between telling people to take preventative measures because people can be shitty and full-on victim-blaming.

    So you’re not victim blaming but you think it was rona’s fault for putting pictures out there.

    also I’ve never met you before rona but sorry if you did get body shamed, I’ve dealt with that a lot IRL and its not very good, my sympathies.

    “You didn’t follow basic safety precautions a third grader should know, but my sympathies”

    Also, this you?
    711050b9-2722-4eb1-a1a5-dd3c35853794-image.png
    Because I feel like you may in fact be one of the toxic people we are talking about here.

  • @Kastaling said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    after reading almost everything posted here, I’m starting to think that people here just don’t know that the “block” button exists.

    the block button won’t help with doxxing someone’s identity or appearance. i definitely do agree that making your social media profiles private is a good idea though.

  • @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    So you’re not victim blaming but you think it was rona’s fault for putting pictures out there.

    There is a reason most normal people keep their social media private except to their friends. How else is he supposed to frame it, just curious.

  • @lucki said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    So you’re not victim blaming but you think it was rona’s fault for putting pictures out there.

    There is a reason most normal people keep their social media private except to their friends. How else is he supposed to frame it, just curious.

    This isn’t the norm you think it is. Everyone in the tf2 community keeps their identity under wraps because this place is a cesspit. In non-gamer communities I’m in people do share selfies, post pictures if they’re happy with their outfit, think they look good today, or whatever. When I wasn’t active in tf2 I did share selfies on my social media platform of choice. All of that got scrubbed when I became active in tf2 because I knew what would come of it.

  • @Bliztank said in Harassment in the RGL Community:
    @Grynn said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    It’s not all on RGL though, we have to do it as a community. No one is gonna give you shit for banning a toxic person from your discord server.

    People virtue signal all day, but when it comes down to actually backing up any meaningful action or change, the reception tends to be rather silent and temporary.

    I’d like to first reply to Grynn. You would be surprised. People will give you shit if you own a Discord server that they care about. Pug groups, friend servers, etc. I’ve had first-hand experience with this and people apologize way too quick for what they have done when in actuality it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

    For Bliztank: This is true, when someone gets banned there’s usually some virtue signaling that people do for selfish gain and never actually take action afterwards. These type of pushbacks for positive action are just trends and fads and rarely ever take off.

  • @WolfTeeth
    Everyone I know IRL has a private social media account. The only people who have public accounts that I’ve seen are people who overshare, and influencers.

  • I’m sure there are people in this community other than Rona who don’t have private social media accounts who have also never been doxxed.

    @Kastaling said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    you can’t entirely blame others

    You absolutely can entirely blame the doxxers. To imply it’s in any way her fault someone went out of their way to find her personal information is the definition of victim blaming.

  • @lucki Oversharers and influencers don’t deserve body shaming or doxxing either!

  • @fleeble You are missing the point

  • @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    Really curious how the block button would solve someone making an entire video about you that involves body shaming.

    I forgot to mention that, but I’m pretty sure at that point you report it to RGL and if they don’t ban the people involved at that point then that’s RGL’s fault then. but it actually can help towards that, generally if you just entirely ignore someone who’s fucking with you/trolling you then they generally get bored. I’ve used it before and it works pretty well.

    @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    So you’re not victim blaming but you think it was rona’s fault for putting pictures out there.

    i literally never said it was anyone’s fault entirely, you’re deliberately (or very, very ignorantly) misinterpreting what I say here. There are measures that any victim can take to mitigate their chances of being a victim. If I leave my car in the most crime-ridden part of the city, unlocked, is it my fault that it got robbed and jacked? Not entirely, but you cannot say that there aren’t things I could’ve done to prevent that.

    @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    Also, this you?
    711050b9-2722-4eb1-a1a5-dd3c35853794-image.png
    Because I feel like you may in fact be one of the toxic people we are talking about here.

    because I find an extremely mildly edgy joke funny I’m somehow in leagues with people that create entire videos doxxing people and bodyshame people? I’m sorry that’s just one of the biggest conclusions jumps I’ve ever seen. I literally asked RGL staff if it was okay, they said no, so I didn’t do it. Would you have preferred if I had just named it like that without asking the staff?

    @lucki said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    This isn’t the norm you think it is. Everyone in the tf2 community keeps their identity under wraps because this place is a cesspit. In non-gamer communities I’m in people do share selfies, post pictures if they’re happy with their outfit, think they look good today, or whatever. When I wasn’t active in tf2 I did share selfies on my social media platform of choice. All of that got scrubbed when I became active in tf2 because I knew what would come of it.

    I think its a norm, every single gamer community I’ve been a part of I don’t share any personal information unless I feel comfortable with the people I’m sharing it with. and if they betray my trust than that’s just an issue of trusting the wrong people.

    @fleeble said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    You absolutely can entirely blame the doxxers. To imply it’s in any way her fault someone went out of their way to find her personal information is the definition of victim blaming.

    perhaps blame isn’t the right word for the message I was trying to get across. It is entirely the doxxers fault that they found that information and used it for nefarious purposes, but there are always preventative measures that can be taken.

  • @lucki said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    @WolfTeeth
    Everyone I know IRL has a private social media account. The only people who have public accounts that I’ve seen are people who overshare, and influencers.

    I feel like you have some built in bias if you dismiss anyone having public social media as oversharing.

    Again, I will say that for instance, sewing communities I’m involved people will take selfies showing off their projects, and no one looses their shit. Because it’s entirely possibly to have community norms that are against toxicity.

  • @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    I feel like you have some built in bias if you dismiss anyone having public social media as oversharing.

    That’s rather biased.

    Again, I will say that for instance, sewing communities I’m involved people will take selfies showing off their projects, and no one looses their shit. Because it’s entirely possibly to have community norms that are against toxicity.

    There is nothing wrong with sharing pictures of yourself with people you trust. The point I am making is that there will ALWAYS be people doing evil things such as doxxing in every community. People should protect themselves. That is all. No one is arguing that people should be allowed to dox people. The problem is, we don’t live in an idealistic society where everyone can post whatever they want without being made fun of. It’s impossible. You can do your best to mitigate it, but you will never eradicate it.

  • @Kastaling said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    I forgot to mention that, but I’m pretty sure at that point you report it to RGL and if they don’t ban the people involved at that point then that’s RGL’s fault then. but it actually can help towards that, generally if you just entirely ignore someone who’s fucking with you/trolling you then they generally get bored. I’ve used it before and it works pretty well.

    I will concede RGL banning these would be better, but I still think the block button only stops people being toxic at you, if they want to organize a harassment campaign, that’s not something easily solved by blocking.

    @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    So you’re not victim blaming but you think it was rona’s fault for putting pictures out there.

    i literally never said it was anyone’s fault entirely, you’re deliberately (or very, very ignorantly) misinterpreting what I say here. There are measures that any victim can take to mitigate their chances of being a victim. If I leave my car in the most crime-ridden part of the city, unlocked, is it my fault that it got robbed and jacked? Not entirely, but you cannot say that there aren’t things I could’ve done to prevent that.

    I think we’re at an impasse here. I’m visibly disabled. I’ve had people yell, throw shit at me, push me. And no this isn’t a story from middle school, this is all within the last year. You go online to vibe and you have to put up with more shit, and you get told over and over again that you just need to be less, do less, keep hiding parts of yourself away so your oppressors don’t find you. And I don’t know how to explain how shitty that feels. At that point walking away feels easy than how you’re being asked to chop up parts of yourself.

    @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    because I find an extremely mildly edgy joke funny I’m somehow in leagues with people that create entire videos doxxing people and bodyshame people? I’m sorry that’s just one of the biggest conclusions jumps I’ve ever seen. I literally asked RGL staff if it was okay, they said no, so I didn’t do it. Would you have preferred if I had just named it like that without asking the staff?

    I’d prefer you didn’t find the n-word funny at all actually. That is a very low standard to meet. Yes it’s different from making videos, but this community’s comfort with slurs is also part of the problem.

    I think its a norm, every single gamer community I’ve been a part of I don’t share any personal information unless I feel comfortable with the people I’m sharing it with. and if they betray my trust than that’s just an issue of trusting the wrong people.

    I am saying this normal only exists because gamers /will/ rip you to shreds if they find out what you look like. (This also applies to your replay to fleeble, I just snipped it off for length

    @lucki said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    There is nothing wrong with sharing pictures of yourself with people you trust. The point I am making is that there will ALWAYS be people doing evil things such as doxxing in every community. People should protect themselves. That is all. No one is arguing that people should be allowed to dox people. The problem is, we don’t live in an idealistic society where everyone can post whatever they want without being made fun of. It’s impossible. You can do your best to mitigate it, but you will never eradicate it.

    No you don’t understand this. I would be find posting a selfie openly if all I did was involve myself in the sewing community or idk the fishing community, or other places where commenting and using your body against you isn’t normalized. Gaming communities uniquely make this risky.

  • @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    I will concede RGL banning these would be better, but I still think the block button only stops people being toxic at you, if they want to organize a harassment campaign, that’s not something easily solved by blocking.

    If RGL ain’t banning whole harassment campaigns then once again, they’re at fault. But blocking those involved usually doesn’t give them much to work with. not feeding the trolls is internet 101 and many people forget that. Not saying that about anyone specifically, but a general thing.

    @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    I’d prefer you didn’t find the n-word funny at all actually. That is a very low standard to meet. Yes it’s different from making videos, but this community’s comfort with slurs is also part of the problem.

    this is getting a bit off topic, but to address this quickly: it’s literally just a word. also the main humor i get from that is that one of the most influential writers of the 20th century named his cat something like that, and its something that mainstream culture doesn’t really know about. Its literally the same joke as “the 25th island of Greece” or “the scientific name of a pig”.

    @WolfTeeth said in Harassment in the RGL Community:

    I am saying this normal only exists because gamers /will/ rip you to shreds if they find out what you look like. (This also applies to your replay to fleeble, I just snipped it off for length

    I don’t think it’s just gamers in general, really just anyone online. if i post a picture of myself in a Mongolian basket-weaving forum such as 4chan on a thread I make, people are gonna meme it if they find a reason. if I do the same on reddit and people find a reason to meme my face, they will. its just a precaution one takes on the internet in general.

  • rgl can ban people and that’s really all they can do, and that’s lovely. but if a harasser is already banned, they are kept in the scene by their friends who refuse to condemn their shitty behavior. i can think of several people who are permabanned by rgl but are still in the tf2 community and still harass people because their friends enable their behavior. rgl isn’t gonna ban by association, thats a PR disaster. that’s why this stuff is all systemic, and it isn’t just an easy fix of “just report them!”

    and a quick edit because i forgot to include this point: “just block them” sure but that doesn’t stop them from making alts to circumvent blocks and going out of their way to spread things about others. blocking them doesn’t mean “oh okay, i guess ill leave them alone now.”

  • I don’t understand why people keep bringing up arguments like “of course people dislike her because she was rude once” or “don’t give your twitter out if you don’t want people to see it”.

    I’ve been an asshole many times and nobody has ever body shamed me or making videos about how terrible I am. I have had my face and name publicly available for anyone to see for a long time now and I haven’t been doxxed.

    The issue isn’t that Rona did something wrong.

    Stop trying to deflect the blame onto the victim.

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